G36 Glock and the 165 grain +P Powerball

[riddleofsteel]

I went to the indoor range today and braved the windstorm of sub freezing air from the venting system to test my new ammo. As some of you may have read before I have been using the Federal 200 grain +P EFMJ ammo in my G36 Glock. I have been satisfied in every way with this ammo but due to great test results I have read on the net I had to try the .45 PowerBall. My package arrived Thursday and after several days of waiting I finally got the chance to slip off to the range this afternoon.
First impressions were that the bullet contour of the Powerball looks a great deal more "feed friendly" than the EFMJ. Even though I have had no problems in that area I know some .45's do. After the first couple of shots I decided that +P PowerBall is lethal on both ends of the gun. Recoil was SHARP, a good deal more snap than 165 grain Remington Golden Saber .40 S&W out of my MK40. It is by no means uncontrollable but doing some quick comparison against standard pressure 230 grain Gold Dot and 200 grain EFMJ +P I found the PowerBall kicked harder and produced more of a sharp snap than any .45 ammo I have fired to date.
Accuracy and reliability were excellent. No feed problems at all and on several groups of six the PowerBall tried to shoot one hole groups. This was despite the fact my hands were trembling after only a few mags. Timed double taps were very difficult with the second round nearly always going a little low but still falling within the kill zone on a combat target. I have no doubt I could qualify with the PowerBall if I had to but I would chose something else for shooting accurate rapid fire.
After 40 rounds I went out and had some coffee and got the feeling back into my fingers. On the second session I found the PowerBall a little easier to control. Firing groups of five or six as rapidly as I could reaquire the target, I was staying within the nine ring at 21 feet. At 25 yards it was not a problem to hit the chest of a combat target with the first shot and any followup shot you took your time with. However, due to recoil it was extremely difficult to hit the torso at 25 yards with any type of rapid fire. Followup tests with 200 grain EFMJ +P or 230 grain standard pressure ammo did not show this problem.
I will fire most of the remaining PowerBall at my next session. Perhaps I can get better at shooting it out of my G36. At a around a dollar a shot this could get expensive REAL fast.

 

[denfoote]

I have not had a chance to try the Powerball round yet. I have tried the Triton 230gr +P Quick Shok, however. It shot consistantly to POA and the recoil was managable. Cor-Bon has the reputation of producing really hot loads!!!

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I've not yet chronographed the sharp-recoiling Corbon PowRball, but as the group at the lower right in the picture was fired at 15 yards from a Dan Wesson Patriot. It grouped very well from a Springfield Armory Lightweight Gov't Model as well and fed 100% in these pistols

I have one 1911 with an extremely tight chamber and is reliable only with ball from a full magazine or cast SWC with 5 in the magazine. I tolerate it only because it shoots very, very well and I use it only for paper.

It feeds the PowRball from 7 or 8 shot magazines. Testing's NOT been over a box or so due to cost, but if it feeds in this gun, it'll likely feed in most others.

In my own very informal expansion tests using water, the bullet's consistently expanded. The jacket did separate, but this is frequent when using water. At www.ammolab.com, the test results on this round indicates about 12" penetration in 10% ballistic gelatin. Here's a picture of a recovered bullet and the loaded cartridge.

Not chronographed it yet.

Best.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Your post got me to thinking so I went out to my shop and put 5 rounds of 165 grain +P Powerball thru my G36. I had a Pact II chrono set up at 15 feet from the muzzle. I did not see a lot number on the ammo but it was purchased direct from CorBon a few days ago and I assume it was of recent manufacture.

1. 1125 fps
2. 1109
3. 1124
4. 1118
5. 1121

This may explain some of the excellent accuracy results I was getting as this box at least seems very consistent.

This comes out to around 460 Ft/Lbs of energy from the 27 oz. G36 with it's 3.78 inch barrel.

No wonder it kicks!

 

[Dave Williams]

John Farnam

recommends Powerball. That, along with the great results at ammolab(I believe it was the only loading to expand with every shot), make it a winner in my book.

Dave

 

[riddleofsteel]

I got my new Wilson's glossy color brochure the other day and between drooling over things I will probably never afford I noticed they are selling .45 PowerBall ammo.

I think it is the only ammo they sell.

Hum.

 

[Wil Terry]

A good and interesting report. Let us not forget,

Recoil is 90% between our ears not between our hands.
The POW'RBALL 45'S feel like popgun loads in my hands, but I've been doing this for over 52 years as we speakso maybe i'm gittin' jaded, huh??
Thanks for all the kind words on the POW'RBALL loads, guys.

 

[Jim Watson]

A lot of recoil is IN my ears.
The PowRball has a very loud, sharp, supersonic report, comparable to a .38 Super Major. I would have to double plug to shoot much of it.

Terry; any chance of extending the design to subsonic ammo? Or is there just not enough room for the ball in a 200 -230 gr .45?

 

[IRock]

Isn't 12" penetration into gelatin kind of on the shallow side?

 

[riddleofsteel]

I do not consider myself particularly recoil sensitive. I have been shooting handguns for close to 40 years now. The first handgun I trained on as a kid was my uncle's 1911 .45. Since then I have been shooting handcannons of every type from 45-70 to hot loaded .45 Colts, to .44 Mags, to .454's. I know recoil and muzzle lift when I feel it.
The Powerball is probably a pop gun in a full size gun but it is a snap dragon in the G36. I do plan to eventually carry it but it will take practice and a good bit of solid technique to master rapid fire with this ammo in the G36. Good all around load but it is probably not the load to end all loads, nothing is.

As far as penetration, I remember reading somewhere that old style fighting knives like Bowies leveled out at about 14" in free blade length because that length was enough to reach the aorta in even the largest of men with a frontal stab to the abdomen. Twelve inches seems plenty to reach vital organs on the average BG.

 

[Midnight]

riddleofsteel, absolutely no flame intended, none....

Why did you decide to use EFMJ and Powerball profile bullets instead of regular JHPs. I have heard of JHPs being unreliable in 1911 style pistols, but never Glocks. The longer, less inclined feed ramp solves this, IMO. Just curious?

 

[riddleofsteel]

Good question;

More from the concern that the standard hollowpoint .45's would not enough energy to expand from the shorter G36 barrel. Then when you add the problem of conventional hollowpoints plugging up with cloth ect. I really felt going in another direction might be fruitful.
I still think either round, the 200 grain EFMJ or the 165 Pow R ball would be a good choice for this handgun. My initial field report from one day at the range simply indicated that the Pow R ball had too much snappish recoil and muzzle rise to shoot rapid fire much beyond 21 feet without some real practice and solid shooting techniques. This was not a flame of the ammo.
As I said I will probably end up packing it in my G36. However, at around a dollar a round, it will end up costing me quite a bit to get comfortable with it.

 

[Midnight]

Sounds like a good reason, I like your thinking. The EFMJ is gonna expand somewhat no matter what, while the HP may become plugged.

 

[riddleofsteel]

My tests of the EFMJ 200 grain +P never showed any failures to expand even though Ammo Lab.com seemed to indicate somewhat erratic performance. I like the flat point profile of the EFMJ. It reminds me of the semi jacketed flat points I hunt with. Even if the 200 grain EFMJ bullet did not expand at all it would cut a wide PWC with that profile.
However in MY tests the EFMJ always expanded and averaged over .60 caliber in diameter when recovered. Plus the Federal 200 grain EFMJ +P round is extremely accurate, reliable and is easier to control than PowRball.

Your milage may vary.