Getting ready to make my first Black Powder .45 Colt load

[MacTech]

Here's what I have so far;

Winchester .45 Colt brass (fired, so far about 3X)
Winchester Large Pistol primers
Better Bullets 200Grn LSWC bullets
GOEX FFg black powder

Do I need anything else, or do I simply replace my normal Trail Boss powder with BP?

I found that a Lee #129 dipper (the old black plastic dipper) throws a 25Grn charge (measured using smokeless scales) and leaves *just* enough room to seat the bullet, the charge will be slightly compressed

Is it simple as throw the BP charge in the case and seat the bullet? what about these "wad" things I've heard about that go behind the bullet?

What's the best way to clean up after a BP shooting session, how critical is it to tear down the BH to it's component parts?

On a side note, in theory, shouldn't shooting BP in a .45 ACP 1911 be a tad cleaner?, mainly because the cartridge is seated into the barrel breech, wheras a revolver has the cylinder freebore area, cylinder gap, and forcing cone to deal with, more space for burning gases to escape...

Or should I just go get a decent 209-based inline BP rifle?

 

[Ratdog68]

Gonna use ffg powder for pistol loads?

 

[MacTech]

That's what the shop recommended for .45LC cartridges, did they sell me the wrong stuff, should it have been FFFg?

 

[Oyeboten]

Either should work fine...but the 3F has long been the traditional Granulation for Handgun, whether Metallic Cartridge or Cap & Ball...and or maybe for smaller Caliber Rifle, also.


2 F traditionally being used for large Bore Rifle.


I am also about ready ( well, I am ready, but I keep getting side-tracked ! ) to be loading for .45 Colt, and with Black Powder.


Some good info here on using 'filler' -

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=524554


Thin Home-Made Lube Wafers between Powder and Ball will aid greatly in eliminating any fouling issues.

Hot Soapy Water and a Nylon or Bronze Brush for cleaning...dry with warmth or compressed Air...oil up so all is happy...


Really, so far, all my after shooting cleaning, from BP Metallic Cartridge in Hand Gun, I just push a little wad of Paper Towell down through with some Soapy Water, with a Dowel Rod, and the Bore is clean as a 'Mirror' and no stubborn fouling or anything even needing a Brush.

This for the little Lube Wafers being used in the Cartridges. Same ones I use for Cap & Ball.

 

[arcticap]

Or should I just go get a decent 209-based inline BP rifle?

Depending on the type of powder being loaded, an inline barrel will usually need to be swabbed every 1-3 shots.
But if using the new Blackhorn 209 powder and magnum primers, then up to 20+ shots can reportedly be fired without requiring any swabbing at all.

 

[Bluehawk]

I'm confused. You want to make .45 Colt loads but can't decide on that or whether to get an in-line rifle?? Do you have a gun that shoots .45 Colt at the moment?? I don't see the correlation between the handgun and the rifle question.
Concerning .45 ACP...yes...shooting straight from the chamber of the 1911 would be "cleaner" since mostly the chamber/barrel would get the majority of the burned and unburned black powder as opposed to a revolver but you will get some residue into the internals just like you would when shooting smokeless powder.
Personally, I wouldn't subject my 1911-A1 to BP loads unless it was a real emergency and I had no suitable smokeless to load up the ammo with. I don't know if it would cycle the slide reliably either.
Like it was mentioned earlier...FFg isn't normally used in BP revolvers. You will get lower velocity with FFg than with FFFg and a lot more unburned powder coming out the muzzle. With the ridiculous prices today for black powder, why waste it??

 

[Gottahaveone]

I was cleaning out the spare bedroom last weekend and ran across a can of FFFg from when I used to shoot an 1860 Army replica. I got a wild hair and decided to stuff up a cylinder full of .45 Colt cases.

I used Starline brass, 35 gr FFFg (by weight) with Win LPP and 230gr rnl bullets from my .45acp stash. The powder came to within about 1/8" from the top of the case so it was a bit compressed when I seated the bullet so I wasn't worried about air gaps.

Took them to the range yesterday. What a hoot. They were much more stout than I expected and had a much bigger Boom and cloud of smoke than I expected. I was grinning more than a little bit and had planned on doing it again. Then I got home and started cleaning the Ruger. I had forgotten what a nasty black ink BP residue makes when mixed with Hoppes. I have about decided that if I want to shoot the old way, I'm gonna get a stainless replica and just throw it in the dishwasher after each session

Before the flames start, I'm just kidding about the dishwasher. (I think)

 

[MacTech]

As far as the .45 Colt goes, I currently have a Ruger New Model Blackhawk .45 ACP/Colt Convertible, 7.5" barrel, blued steel, but I'm also considering picking up some form of black powder specific gun, I was only planning on loading up a couple BP .45 Colts, just to see what it's like, at the most, I'd run maybe six cartridges, no more, just to see what it's like

how much crud would build up after 3-6 BP cartridges?

 

[Pulp]

Cleanup will be a lot easier if you'll thoroughly clean your gun before shooting the BP. Clean it with hot soapy water, then dry it. You want all the smokeless residue out of the barrel. Then lube it with Crisco, Bore Butter or some vegetable based oil. After shooting, do the same clean up process. If you don't plan on shooting any more BP, then lube and protect with your regular gun oil. The great thing about Ballistol is it works with smokeless and BP.

Warning: once you touch off a few BP loads, you're gonna want to do it again.

25 grains by weight seems kinda light to me. I know you measured it and all, but I don't see much compression in a .45Colt case with that weight of powder.

 

[BCRider]

I've read a lot of bits and pieces on loading BP cartridges that recomend using a powder drop tube. Something about using the drop tube packs the powder in more fully? If this is the case I'd be worried about that seemingly light 25 grains packing down and leaving an air gap where there shouldn't be one.

And light it is. Thanks to another recent thread I found the Goex load tables. Here's the one that says that .45Colt needs significant'y more than 25 grains....
http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/Cartridge-Pistol-Revolvers.pdf

Note that there isn't any range of filling. Just the one number. That's because you must not have an air gap. So the early cartridges were sized to be filled fully with packed powder that would not settle out and leave a gap that would cause an explosive burn.

And note that Goex recomends ffg for .45Colt.

Just for the heck of it fill a casing using the dipper and then rap the base on a block of wood a bunch of times. If the powder level drops significantly as the powder packs down then you need to switch to a drop tube and try again. Or place your cartridge loading block on a shaker table to settle the powder and then refill to the right level.

But this raises a related question of my own. If we need to measure by volume and considering that we already know that the powder can be "fluffy" or packed then in which condition are we measuring the volume? I'm guessing that we're measuring it while "fluffy" and then need to pack it into the casing? Is this correct?

I'll have to hit up the three guys that shoot a lot of BP cartridges at our meets and ask if this is what they do and how they pack all the powder into the cases. Drop tube or "other".

As a side note one of the guys in my club that shoots a heap of black at all the CAS matches told me that he prefers FFg over FFFg for the slightly slower burn that reduces the shock on the black powder guns. Especially his two Walkers when loaded full. He also likes it since there's still some granules burning when they are sprayed out the front which adds to the show...

PS: I'm also liking the looks of the 25 grains of FFFg in a .357 case and behind a 158gn bullet for some BP fun with my 1873 Pietta clones...

 

[44-henry]

Twenty five grains is pretty light for the 45 Colt and I would go with the 3fg powder. I dropped a doe in its tracks a few years back with a uberti copy of the Colt 1873 in 45 Colt (7 1/2" barrel) using my reloads which had 37 grains of 3fg Goex behind a 250 grain LRNFP. I was getting a hair over 1000 fps with this particular load. Certainly no shortage of power with that load. Cleanup isn't any more involved than with a regular cap and ball revolver and I have no problems going through a box of 50 without cleaning. Accuracy is plenty fine and I am able to regularly hit a 20" square steel plate at 100 yards with this revolver.



Things I have found that works for me are:

• Use a drop tube to get the powder in. Scoops work, but you won't get as much powder in the case.
  
  • Use a magnum primer
• Lube your bullets with an appropriate lube (I use SPG)
  
• Forget the lube wad or anything else in the pistol cases

Other than that have fun and remember that these loads are not the pipsqueek loads that the CAS shooters routinely use. Also, it throws an interesting perspective on the guns and loads used for defense in the 19th century. You quickly realize that the ballistics for many of these guns actually surpass most of the popular defense loads used today.

 

[ClemBert]

My 45 Colt loads:

Starline Brass
Winchester Large Pistol Primers
250 grain RNFP Bullet
35 gains FFFg GOEX
0.030 Walter Wad

I use standard bullets that come with smokeless lube. Typically, I remove the lube and put in my own beeswax/crisco lube. Sometimes I use 40 grains of FFFg but I use a drop tube and a compression plug to get the powder compressed before adding the Walter wad and bullet. Usually go with a very light crimp.

 

[[email protected]]

Here's a Factory Goex Black Dawge which is loaded with 37 grs of black powder 45 Colt being fired in a Uberti Cattleman by my wife.

 

[Jim Watson]

I shoot BPCR and go to a lot of trouble for my 500 metre - 600 yard ammo.
Powder is weighed - none of this "grains volume" business.
It is drop-tubed into the brass.
Compressed with a separate die.
Covered by a Walters fibre wad.
Loaded with a good quality rather soft bullet lubed with a specific black powder lube to keep the fouling soft.

A lot of revolver and carbine shooters do not go to as much trouble.
Mike Venturino says he loads his sixgun shells the same as for his Sharps, which gets him through a CAS match without having to stop to clean or lube between stages.

 

[Phantom Captain]

I use my own soft lead cast 250 grain bullets from a lyman mold lubed with SPG lube. CCI large pistol primers and load with 30 grains by volume 3f Goex. I don't use any wads or cards and find the SPG keeps the fouling soft even after 100 rounds or so. Plenty stout and accurate for me. I'm on the paper all day long at 50 yards with my Beretta Stampede with a 5" barrel. As much as I love my cap and ball revolvers something about the BP cartridges out of a SA Army just hits something special in me. Hard to admit out loud but it's become my favorite even over my '51 Navy (blasphemy!!). I was at the range with it this weekend and it sure is an attention getter. Think it's the report and the smoke for sure. I let four different people try it out who came up to talk about it. More converts!

 

[wittzo]

How about a safe load for a conversion cylinder? I have a lot of Large Magnum Primers left over from when I reloaded .45 Colt with smokeless, would they work with the BP without producing dangerous spikes of pressure?

 

[Jim Watson]

At one time magnum primers were thought to be best with black. Few BPCR shooters use them any more, but they are not going to hurt your revolver.

 

[Pulp]

You don't need a drop tube for pistol unless you're planning on maximum loads. Fill a .45 case level to the top and you don't have room to start a bullet. Use the same amount of powder, poured through a drop tube and you may have as much as 1/4 inch below the mouth. That gives you room to start a bullet.
The BPCR shooters claim a drop tube reduces fouling, in addition to allowing more powder. I don't claim to understand how it reduces fouling, but that's what they say.

 

[BCRider]

But a drop tube is just a way to help make sure the powder is settled well into the casing. And your example is why I suspect it would be a good idea. Using the same example if we just pour in enough powder to leave a 1/4 inch for the bullet then over time and from shaking around I would expect the powder to settle much the same as sugar or coffee in a container when you shake it to settle it so you can pour more into the container. If that happens and it leaves an air gap then the max pressure will spike.

To avoid that it seems like one would need to load to the brim and then compress the "loose" powder more heavily so that the risk of settling and leaving an air space is avoided. But that would get messy. Seems like a drop tube would be the way to go since it packs the powder more compactly to avoid any risk of an air space and allows for leaving a tidy insertion of the bullet.

 

[Phantom Captain]

BCRider,

In my experience that doesn't happen. I load thirty grains by volume out of a flask that has a 30gr spout. That leaves room to set the bullet, tap it down and crimp it just right. Setting the bullet indeed compresses the powder just a tiny bit. Even over time there is no settling inside the cases and everything remains tight and compressed. You can shake em all you want and there is never any movement inside whatsoever. Just my $.02 from what I've experienced. To each their own. It may be so for a .45-70 case or larger as the volume of the case is so much greater but for .45 Colt there is no settling as you describe. At least not enough to be noticeable or leave a space as long as there is some compression when setting the bullet.

Ok, and amending after ClemBert's post...it's all dependant on how much powder one is trying to load! Obviously for a 40 grain load as he is doing a drop tube would be a necessity. For my loads I think I've just found what works exactly right for what I'm doing.

 

[ClemBert]

I typically load with either 35 or 40 grains FFFg in Starline brass, a 0.030 Walter Wad, and a 250 grain 0.452 RNFP lead bullet. I use a scale to weigh the charge just to be more consistent about the load although you could use a volumetric measure. A drop tube as pictured below helps to get that 40 grains in the brass. A compression plug is definitely a must with 40 grains.