orangeninja
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2003
- Messages
- 3,117
Hello All,
A couple of notes, the guns were both range rentals and the conditions were indoors.
Glock 36 was first up. Ammo was 230 gr. Ball American and Winchester WB.
Caliber
.45 Auto
Action
Safe Action System
Length (slide)
6.77 in. 172 mm
Height 2)
4.76 in. 121 mm
Width
1.13 in 28.5 mm.
Length between sights 3)
6.18 in. 157 mm
Barrel length
3.78 in. 96 mm
Barrel rifling
right, octogonal
Length of twist
15.75 in. 400 mm
Magazine capacity 4)
6
Mass (weight)
Empty without magazine
20.11 oz. 570 g
Empty magazine
2.40 oz. 68 g
Full magazine 5)
~6.88 oz. ~195 g
Trigger pull (standard)
~5.5 lbs. ~2.5 kg
Trigger travel for discharge 6)
0.5 in. 12.5 mm
Number of safeties
3
The Glock recoil was surprisingly sharp. With a two hand hold off hand I was able to shoot approximately 2 to 3 groups off hand in a decently paced rhythm (about 1 shot a second) at 21 feet into Silhouette. The gun was very slim and seemed like it would conceal very well however it would probably see little range time due to the recoil.
Shooting the G36 one handed was a whole new adventure. I consistently shot about 3 to four inches to the left when trying to maintain the 1 shot a second pace. This is due to a couple of things.
1.) Hand to gun fit. The gun is so slim that someone with my size hands would have a hard time maintaining any kind of hold on it shot after shot. Just too much room to move around in my big mitt.
2.) The trigger, though indicative of most Glock triggers, still leads to pulling too hard until you get used to that unique Glock “trigger breakâ€. I think this could solve itself once becoming accustomed to staging and releasing the trigger.
Neither of the above are necessarily the G36’s fault, but it does demonstrate the need for a proper gun to hand fit. Trying to make something work for you when it doesn’t just doesn’t make sense.
After about 25 rounds into the G36, I started to experience a few FTE. I’d say all in all out of a 50 round session with ball ammo this particular Glock failed to eject about 5 times. Of course this would be unacceptable in any self defense weapon so I took it back to the range officers an asked to shoot a Glock 30 instead, this ended the G36 test. Of the unit I fired these are my observations:
Good Stuff:
1.) Easily concealable, slim and very light.
2.) Easy to find aftermarket support such as holsters, etc. for it.
3.) Good sight picture.
4.) Accurate (IF it fits your hands or you make constant adjustments to your grip)
5.) Tennifer finish ala Glock. Tuff to break down.
6.) Reputation, don’t tell me it doesn’t mean anything, would you defend yourself with a Davis .380 or a Sig if you’ve never shot either? Reputation.
Bad Stuff:
1.) Unreliable (at least this one was)
2.) Sharp recoil. Lots of muzzle rise.
3.) Plastic sights? I thought this was supposed to be a self defense weapon.
4.) “Unique†Glock grip angle. It is what it is.
5.) “Unique†Glock trigger, I personally like the trigger, but some getting used to is required. (I think you could place this in good or bad.)
6.) So slim, this gun would have a certain type of individual who could shoot it well consistently, limited market.
Next to the bat was the Glock 30, essentially a double stack of the G36.
Action
Safe Action System
Length (slide)
6.77 in. 172 mm
Height 2)
4.76 in. 121 mm
(4.45 in. 113 mm)
Width
1.27 in 32.5 mm.
Length between sights 3)
5.95 in. 151 mm
Barrel length
3.78 in. 96 mm
Barrel rifling
right, octogonal
Length of twist
15.75 in. 400 mm
Magazine capacity 4)
10 (9)
Mass (weight)
Empty without magazine
23.99 oz. 680 g
Empty magazine
2.50 oz. 71 g
(2.40 oz. 68 g)
Full magazine 5)
~9.87 oz. ~280 g
(~9.0 oz. ~255 g)
Trigger pull (standard)
~5.5 lbs. ~2.5 kg
Trigger travel for discharge 6)
0.5 in. 12.5 mm
Number of safeties
3
With 10+ shots in .45 this gun is very compact. Upon shooting this I did notice that this gun has at least a ¼ inch added thickness compared to a Glock 9mm or .40. The grip is pretty thick as well thus it may also have a limited market like the G36.
Upon shooting this I placed my first two shots into a silhouette at 21 feet nearly on top of one another. I immediately thought this was a fluke and so continued to shoot at about 1 shot per second. Averaging about a 1 to 2 inch group, after unloading about 30 shots into the center of the target I had made a hole roughly baseball sized with 1 or two shots off to the side (my fault entirely.) Once I became more accustomed to the trigger I began to shoot rapid head shots, almost without effort. The sight picture was good and the grip fit so well that the gun hardly seemed to move from one shot to the next. (it’s amazing what a proper grip does.) During the session this gun did not fail once. I tried some one handed shots and though I didn’t group as well as the 1 to 2 inches, it was still very acceptable.
Recoil was not bad at all, especially compared to a G36, who’d think there would be such a difference between the two, but there is. The Good and Bad of it?
Good:
1.) Grip fit my hand perfectly (this is subjective to the individual.
2.) Not bad recoil at all.
3.) Boringly accurate.
4.) Good aftermarket support.
5.) Reputation.
6.) Finish.
7.) Good sight picture.
8.) Reliable.
9.) Short and brief frame making it somewhat concealable, though not like a G36.
10.) 10+ in .45 in a very compact package.
The Bad:
1.) Still have plastic sights.
2.) Funky grip angle ala’ Glock.
3.) Chunky, probably too thick for IWB carry and you wouldn’t be concealing this thing under a T-Shirt.
4.) “Unique†Glock grip angle.
Both guns were winners, though I don’t think I’ll purchase either. The reason for this is that I use the Sig platform (involuntarily) at work and thus off duty. I would consider a gun with a similar grip angle and features, such as a CZ, but have yet to find the perfect “it’s 100 degrees in the shade in Fort Worth Texas and I’m sweating my ever loving jewels off out here in the sun†gun, which I don’t think Sig makes, though I may have to retry a Sig 239 after shooting Sigmans .40 at the range.
Due to the unique trigger on the Glock, and the grip angle, I do not recommend using this platform and a non-similar platform for self defense. For instance, if you regularly shoot and use Sigs, CZ, etc. then going Glock may not be such a good idea unless you put a lot of range time in. If carrying for self defense, stick with one platform if possible or two very similar platforms would be the max. I will probably submit an article on this in the future.
A couple of notes, the guns were both range rentals and the conditions were indoors.
Glock 36 was first up. Ammo was 230 gr. Ball American and Winchester WB.
Caliber
.45 Auto
Action
Safe Action System
Length (slide)
6.77 in. 172 mm
Height 2)
4.76 in. 121 mm
Width
1.13 in 28.5 mm.
Length between sights 3)
6.18 in. 157 mm
Barrel length
3.78 in. 96 mm
Barrel rifling
right, octogonal
Length of twist
15.75 in. 400 mm
Magazine capacity 4)
6
Mass (weight)
Empty without magazine
20.11 oz. 570 g
Empty magazine
2.40 oz. 68 g
Full magazine 5)
~6.88 oz. ~195 g
Trigger pull (standard)
~5.5 lbs. ~2.5 kg
Trigger travel for discharge 6)
0.5 in. 12.5 mm
Number of safeties
3
The Glock recoil was surprisingly sharp. With a two hand hold off hand I was able to shoot approximately 2 to 3 groups off hand in a decently paced rhythm (about 1 shot a second) at 21 feet into Silhouette. The gun was very slim and seemed like it would conceal very well however it would probably see little range time due to the recoil.
Shooting the G36 one handed was a whole new adventure. I consistently shot about 3 to four inches to the left when trying to maintain the 1 shot a second pace. This is due to a couple of things.
1.) Hand to gun fit. The gun is so slim that someone with my size hands would have a hard time maintaining any kind of hold on it shot after shot. Just too much room to move around in my big mitt.
2.) The trigger, though indicative of most Glock triggers, still leads to pulling too hard until you get used to that unique Glock “trigger breakâ€. I think this could solve itself once becoming accustomed to staging and releasing the trigger.
Neither of the above are necessarily the G36’s fault, but it does demonstrate the need for a proper gun to hand fit. Trying to make something work for you when it doesn’t just doesn’t make sense.
After about 25 rounds into the G36, I started to experience a few FTE. I’d say all in all out of a 50 round session with ball ammo this particular Glock failed to eject about 5 times. Of course this would be unacceptable in any self defense weapon so I took it back to the range officers an asked to shoot a Glock 30 instead, this ended the G36 test. Of the unit I fired these are my observations:
Good Stuff:
1.) Easily concealable, slim and very light.
2.) Easy to find aftermarket support such as holsters, etc. for it.
3.) Good sight picture.
4.) Accurate (IF it fits your hands or you make constant adjustments to your grip)
5.) Tennifer finish ala Glock. Tuff to break down.
6.) Reputation, don’t tell me it doesn’t mean anything, would you defend yourself with a Davis .380 or a Sig if you’ve never shot either? Reputation.
Bad Stuff:
1.) Unreliable (at least this one was)
2.) Sharp recoil. Lots of muzzle rise.
3.) Plastic sights? I thought this was supposed to be a self defense weapon.
4.) “Unique†Glock grip angle. It is what it is.
5.) “Unique†Glock trigger, I personally like the trigger, but some getting used to is required. (I think you could place this in good or bad.)
6.) So slim, this gun would have a certain type of individual who could shoot it well consistently, limited market.
Next to the bat was the Glock 30, essentially a double stack of the G36.
Action
Safe Action System
Length (slide)
6.77 in. 172 mm
Height 2)
4.76 in. 121 mm
(4.45 in. 113 mm)
Width
1.27 in 32.5 mm.
Length between sights 3)
5.95 in. 151 mm
Barrel length
3.78 in. 96 mm
Barrel rifling
right, octogonal
Length of twist
15.75 in. 400 mm
Magazine capacity 4)
10 (9)
Mass (weight)
Empty without magazine
23.99 oz. 680 g
Empty magazine
2.50 oz. 71 g
(2.40 oz. 68 g)
Full magazine 5)
~9.87 oz. ~280 g
(~9.0 oz. ~255 g)
Trigger pull (standard)
~5.5 lbs. ~2.5 kg
Trigger travel for discharge 6)
0.5 in. 12.5 mm
Number of safeties
3
With 10+ shots in .45 this gun is very compact. Upon shooting this I did notice that this gun has at least a ¼ inch added thickness compared to a Glock 9mm or .40. The grip is pretty thick as well thus it may also have a limited market like the G36.
Upon shooting this I placed my first two shots into a silhouette at 21 feet nearly on top of one another. I immediately thought this was a fluke and so continued to shoot at about 1 shot per second. Averaging about a 1 to 2 inch group, after unloading about 30 shots into the center of the target I had made a hole roughly baseball sized with 1 or two shots off to the side (my fault entirely.) Once I became more accustomed to the trigger I began to shoot rapid head shots, almost without effort. The sight picture was good and the grip fit so well that the gun hardly seemed to move from one shot to the next. (it’s amazing what a proper grip does.) During the session this gun did not fail once. I tried some one handed shots and though I didn’t group as well as the 1 to 2 inches, it was still very acceptable.
Recoil was not bad at all, especially compared to a G36, who’d think there would be such a difference between the two, but there is. The Good and Bad of it?
Good:
1.) Grip fit my hand perfectly (this is subjective to the individual.
2.) Not bad recoil at all.
3.) Boringly accurate.
4.) Good aftermarket support.
5.) Reputation.
6.) Finish.
7.) Good sight picture.
8.) Reliable.
9.) Short and brief frame making it somewhat concealable, though not like a G36.
10.) 10+ in .45 in a very compact package.
The Bad:
1.) Still have plastic sights.
2.) Funky grip angle ala’ Glock.
3.) Chunky, probably too thick for IWB carry and you wouldn’t be concealing this thing under a T-Shirt.
4.) “Unique†Glock grip angle.
Both guns were winners, though I don’t think I’ll purchase either. The reason for this is that I use the Sig platform (involuntarily) at work and thus off duty. I would consider a gun with a similar grip angle and features, such as a CZ, but have yet to find the perfect “it’s 100 degrees in the shade in Fort Worth Texas and I’m sweating my ever loving jewels off out here in the sun†gun, which I don’t think Sig makes, though I may have to retry a Sig 239 after shooting Sigmans .40 at the range.
Due to the unique trigger on the Glock, and the grip angle, I do not recommend using this platform and a non-similar platform for self defense. For instance, if you regularly shoot and use Sigs, CZ, etc. then going Glock may not be such a good idea unless you put a lot of range time in. If carrying for self defense, stick with one platform if possible or two very similar platforms would be the max. I will probably submit an article on this in the future.
