"Goin' to the Ground?"

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BerettaNut92

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OK.

A guy I know is a reserve police officer and we were chatting about guns. We were talking about J-frame carry methods and he mentioned his ankle holster. I asked him why, and he said, quote, "If I get into a gunfight, I'm goin' to the ground."

Color me :confused:

Any comments?
 
'Cause he's retarded?

:(

I dunno what it is, but you give a guy some basic (but frequently stupid or obsolete) confrontational training and they come away with the impression that they're experts.

"Ooohhh, I'm being shot at! Better lay down and thrash around!"

:rolleyes:
 
Hmm. Could be he's taken some of his training and twisted the meaning.
A curb provides very good (although small) cover from handgun fire. At least that's what they taught in the academy. That said, I can think of a number of objects I would rather hide behind while retaining mobility. Maybe he's going for the ultra low profile?
Either way, he's ...kinda wierd.

I question most tactics I learned in the academy very heavily. Some of the stuff POST teaches, absurd is the only word.
 
He is taking rollover prone to heart too much IMHO. While a useful position in some instances, I would never make it my primary response.
 
El T., "If taking multiple .308 hits in the back is your Plan A, I suggest you find yourself a Plan B." :D

Wouldn't 'goin' to the ground' make an ankle holster more difficult to get to?
 
...A curb provides very good (although small) cover from handgun fire. At least that's what they taught in the academy.
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Not to be disagreeable, but it's actually one of the worst options for hard-cover - you're right to question some of the things taught during your academy days. One of the most common pitfalls of hugging the curbside for cover is the propensity for projectiles to skip at the closest angle of deflection on a hardened surface, i.e. the sidewalk/pavement. Albeit, this isn't from personal experience, but from what has been learned from demonstrations by the LASO SEB when putting together their training for "Using Cover" - it's a real eye-opener.

-Jim
 
Not to be disagreeable, but it's actually one of the worst options for hard-cover - you're right to question some of the things taught during your academy days. One of the most common pitfalls of hugging the curbside for cover is the propensity for projectiles to skip at the closest angle of deflection on a hardened surface, i.e. the sidewalk/pavement
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Ya know, that was exactly what I asked. I found most of the tactics there to be around 30 years out of date.
I learned to keep my mouth shut and just write the official answer in the appropriate spot. More reason why I am not an LEO in CA.
 
I always felt the moment someone hits the ground, they are the loser of the fight. I kida feel this applies to a gun fight also. Once you are on the ground completely, no matter how many guns or how accurate you are, you are still a much easier target. I would prefer the method of take a few shots, and if I miss, move to a different positions, so the BG doesn't know where to shot when he comes out again.
 
It is good to train to CONTINUE the fight after you are down...for whatever reason...

But it is not such a good idea to PLAN to fall down...intentionally

I saw a review of a Jim Cirrillo(sp?) class where they spent quite some time on these tactics.

But I doubt he taught them to

Draw your weapon and fall on your butt!
 
Quote:
Hmm. Could be he's taken some of his training and twisted the meaning.

Yeah, his idea of "clearing leather" is taking his shoes off.
:D
 
I will agree that there are some very good tactical maneuvers that can performed while on the ground, however, if one is standing and one is lying down, my money is on the guy standing. But if it were me, I'd still fight to get back to my feet.

In a gun fight, the guy on ground is a goner. The odds become VERY against him.
 
Only situation I can think of that going to the ground is the first option, would be aimed fire coming from a unknown direction. That would be a situation to hit the ground at the nearest cover. In any cqb/mugging/assault situation though, I will utilize cover and respond accordingly, not dive for the ground at my attackers feet.
 
In Jim Cirillo's training seminars he (or his instructors) show why the prone and/or seated positions are bad. Basically he demonstrates that if you are proned out your opposition will be putting their rounds in front of you. This can cause the rounds to skip into you.

Now in the army they trained us to always go prone whne in a firefight. I don't get it. :confused:
 
Deadman-

I would agree with you when it comes there being difference between urban and field enviroments. I wonder if the military (U.S. and Aussie) has changed it's training since Iraq began. Lots of street fighting in that situation.
 
Army didn't train much prone in Urban environs before Iraq...outside on the street is a dangerous place to be still, standin' or lyin' down, gotta take buildings and work from there. Prone is good for any place where distances are longer, cover and concealment is present, and the battlefield is more 2D. Urban is too 3D for prone to work well, unless there aren't any 2 story plus buildings...even then a guy on the roof of a single story will eat a prone persons lunch.

Of course if you got a .38 in an ankle holster..prone is definitely the CQB tactic of choice in any environment. (It even works great underwater!):uhoh: :rolleyes: ;)
 
Well, I'm a little confused now, too. Perhaps someone is being too loose with the definition of prone?

PRONE implies a position with the front of the body turned toward the supporting surface <push-ups require a prone position>. SUPINE implies lying on one's back and suggests inertness or abjectness <lying supine on the couch>.
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(Thanks, M-W.com!)

When I think of anything in an ankle holster, my first thought is Kurt Russell's "gun boot" in Tango and Cash. But considering that prone means "on your face," when someone says "prone" and "ankle holster," I'm thinking about the contortions you'll need to make just to GET to the gun.

So OK, supine. Or recumbent. (Hey, words are my life.) I can see going down on your back, then going for your ankle gun. AS A LAST RESORT, because you shot all your other guns dry. Come to think of it, as cool as it looks to see a certain instructor do a CQ palm strike, present as he sits down and rolls on his back, and light up the target, it would seem to be the proper course of action in only very limited circumstances. Because legs were made for running, and taking them out of the mobility equation seems a bit...silly. And then you're supposed to get up and maintain proper muzzle discipline? Hmm.
 
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