going to look at a Used M-1A tommorrow have questions

[Detritus]

Greetings, gents

Local shop has a gun in their rack that is listed as a Springfeild M-1A National Match in "Like New" condition that includes a scope and Mount, for a price that is in line with my personal "this is a good enough deal to eat Ramen/ PB&J over" threshhold, plus i may be able to convice my lovely wife to contribute to the cause (thinking over "help with this and all i need for B-Day/ christmas for a few years is a kiss" VERY seriously)

now let me get the first question out of the way as it is the one i'm actually slightly embarassed that i don't already know the answer to... but in the close to 18 years i've been a shooter, i've just never looked at one to find out.
ARE the various grades of SA M-1A rifles Marked as to which grade they left the factory as?? as in do the NM and Super match etc bear a rollmark or similar attesting to the fact that the rifle did in fact leave the factory as/in that particular config?
also is there a good way to tell just how old this rifle is (manf. date, if this dealer says like new he means it)

are there any things i need to look for or look out for as i examine this particular specimen?

as for whay i'm interested in it i've wanted an M-1A for most of the above mentioned 18 years of my life as an active shooter, plus if this rifle is of the configuration it's labeled as on the shop's website removal of the scope/mount assembly should make it usable in the local HP matches (another goal for me btw)

as always when i ask questions here any and all input and advice is appreciated.

thank you for your time.

 

[Telperion]

SA doesn't mark the receivers differently. The main difference is in the barrel and bedding work. A super match will also have lugged receiver.

I'd check the condition of the bore, and if there's a gauge available check the throat. The trigger should be two stage, with a crisp break. The gas system and front band should be welded together and not budge on a match rifle. Rather than trying to cover everything, I'd suggest looking at Lee Emerson's M14 buyer's guide.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

This is a supermatch. Look at the stock, see how it is thicker and does not have a hole in the side forward of the trigger group? Compare it to a nationalmatch below:

See how the national has a hole in it?

The other differences are look at the rear sight, it should be hooded. You should see some sort of opaque paint on the stock where it is bedded around the receiver also.

Beyond that, there are not many obvious external features.

 

[molonlabe]

mine has NM on the barrel

 

[Swampy]

mine has NM on the barrel

An NM stamping on the barrel does not make the rifle an "NM"... SA Inc. puts NM marked barrels on their "loaded" models and other lower grades in addition to the ones that are bedded and tricked out for Match shooting.

If it's truly one of SA Inc.'s NM rifles, it'll have the type of characteristics Peter Eick has shown.

Good luck in the purchase deal with the wifey..

Best to all,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[AirForceShooter]

When the seller puts it on the counter you should have only one reaction and that's OMG.
If you don't get that reaction walk away

AFS

 

[Detritus]

When the seller puts it on the counter you should have only one reaction and that's OMG.

you're preaching to the chior.... in other words i've already had this reaction just from the cursory glance i gave it last time i was in. otherwise i wouldn't even be bothering. and i certainly wouldn't be trying to get my wife involved on the deal as a "contributing factor" if i did not have the feeling of "if i don't at least make an effort to get this thing i'm gonna kick myself for years" this post would not exist.


what i know about this rifle is that it IS in NM or Supermatch config whether it started that way or not. i asked the orginal question b/c i want if possible to know if the gun was factory or an owner build up. not sure at this point what the mount and scope are (will post this evening after i've had a look). but it's in this config, it's in "like new" condition (as i stated above this is a dealer whose Definition of "Like New" i agree with) and it's going for barely if anything more than what a NIB Loaded goes for in the area.

thanks for the replies so far guys..

well i'm off, time to do my day off errands.

 

[Ed]

Call Springfield with th eSN and they will tell you how it left and when.

 

[Dionysusigma]

On new SA M1As, or M14s in general, what little bits and pieces get lost/ break first? In other words, what spare parts are good to keep on hand?

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I have yet to break anything on my guns. Mine are all "match" quality though and I tend to baby them a bunch.

Things I would get are sight pliers, gas cylinder wrench, bore guide, dewey rod, chamber brush, and lots and lots of mags.

Good luck, they are a "blast" to shoot.

 

[Detritus]

just thought of something, and before anyone asks this IS entirely within the realm of possibility.

what if it's in M-21 config?

my thoughts on the possible uses I personally would put an M-1A to, and the admittedly somewhat hazy recollections of the last time i saw the rifle (seem to remember it having the Adjustable cheekpiece) lead to me ask

anyone know what the NRA rule book says regarding use of that setup in HP? does it fall at that point under the guise of a "Match rifle" rather than service rifle? where exactly IS the cutoff between the two amoung the factory spec M-1As? is the Super match even considered SR legal??

it's been too long and i just simply can't remember any more what is and is not allowable.

well as alwas thank you for your time adn input. hopefully i'll be able to take a close look tommorrow (crossed fingers that they're back in town)

 

[Dienekes]

As to parts, not a bad idea to lay in an extra extractor and firing pin. Have never needed either but seem to recall breaking a firing pin on an M1 a long time ago. Of course it was probably 50 years old when it let go.

A gas cylinder holding fixture to avoid torquing the cylinder is a good thing. There is also a little hold-open tray type block that is very handy for cleaning--catches all the crud and keeps the bolt from slamming closed when you tap or jar it off the catch. Believe that Champion's choice sells both of these.

The nice thing about these rifles is that once set up properly they just tend to keep right on going indefinitely. Any machine can break but these are pretty darned reliable. Of course that was the idea...

 

[molonlabe]

Swampy

Mine has those characteristics, trigger pull, sights, bedding, in addition to NM stamped on the barrel. Also a certification as to the head spacing that may not be with a used rifle. Also since SA suggested I not remove the action from the bedding since it mat loosen it it has never been removed from the wood in thousands of rounds and 15 years.

 

[Bwana John]

Because of my last problem, I would check the headspace.
See my post, "What rate of headspace growth is OK in M-1A"

 

[30Cal]

A match rifle will be bedded. The Supermatch will have a rear lug that should be evident when you view the rifle from the side, under the heel of the receiver (the original Supermatch rifles don't have the lug). The Supermatch will not have a stock liner (the screw in the stock above the trigger group).

Personally, I'd prefer a rifle built into NM configuration over one of the SA Inc match models.

Some builders will leave the stock liner in place, some will get rid of it, so it's not a good indicator. Either way, bedding is bedding and it's easy to spot.

Other things to check for on a match rifle:
Unitized gas system (the barrel band which sits on the gas cylinder at the forecend of the stock should not have any play in it). You might not get a look, but when it's out of the stock, you should see screws or welds.
Crisp trigger break
Match barrel (some are stamped NM, most aren't, but all will have a fatter profile under the handguard that you can see with the oprod pulled back--see the Kreiger barrels website to see what I mean).
NM front sight
Hooded rear aperature
"NM/2A" marked rear sight base -or- a ball detent under the bottom of the windage knob (it should take 8 clicks to move the rear sight from one index to the next--the standard sights will take 4 clicks)
Flash suppressor and gas system should have absolutely no play what-so-ever.
It should take 5-10lbs to squeeze a gap between the stock ferrule (on the forend) and the barrel band on the gas cylinder.
The front face of the stock ferrule should not contact the face of the barrel band--they should only touch at the tab on the barrel band.

In general:
-check the condition of the bore
-check the flash suppressor for cracks, gas cutting and check the inside for copper streaks
-the GI fiberglass handguards have a tendency to crack near the handguard clip ($12 item--not a big deal)
-inside the front of the mag well, the spring guide provides a lug to hold the front of the magazine. Make sure it's not rounded or grossly worn (not a show stopper--some of the "NM" spring guides are just soft)
-Gas cylinder/barrel band--some of the unitized gas systems are welded up instead of screwed and glued. Check for ugly welds.
-Take a close look at all the bedding you can inspect for signs of chips, cracks, softening, etc. A chip or two isn't necessarily bad, but if there are bad signs everywhere, the rifle may need to be re-bedded. Push on the heel of the receiver--it shouldn't move or click. If he'll let you take the receiver out of the stock, if it's good and tight, it will probably need to be driven out using a dowel under the heel of the receiver.
-The bedding should be fairly neat. If there's stray epoxy, ugly borders, etc, it probably wasn't done by someone who really knows what they're doing.
-You should see a gap between the stock and the receiver between the horseshoe at the rear up to where the back of the receiver legs are. The horseshoe should have full contact to about 1" forward of the back end.
-If it's a GI stock, the selector cut-out, under the windage knob, should be filled in w/ bedding material.
-The trigger guard should swing closed with resistance for the last 1/4".
-it's pretty typical for a bolt to have less than 1/16" play fore-to-aft when in battery on an empty chamber
-check the stock for cracks, especially around the receiver and bedding.
-check the rear sight windage for full range of travel. Aperature should have little or no side-to-side play

Stocks, as they come from SA Inc, are dry and should be sealed. I prefer tung oil.

I think the M-21 has an adjustable cheekrest and would not be legal with that stock under service rifle rules--you could shoot it as a match rifle.

Ty

 

[molonlabe]

One other thing. The gas port is pinned on mine in that if you attempt to put it in the granade launch position it will damage it.

 

[Detritus]

Oh well.....

all this for nothing....

just found out tuesday that i will most likely (+90% chance) NOT have a job after the end of the month!

so there goes not only any plans i have regarding firearms but pretty much any and all plans i have period!!!

excuse me while i go update my resume and find some advil for the headache i have......

 

[Detritus]

still possible

Still trying to scrape up enough to take a legitimate stab at this rifle, and i have a question.

as of 10/31 i confirmed that the rifle in question received the attentions of smith by the name of Glenn Nelson..

how much does this change things if any??