Good Data on .308 v. 30-06

[willypete]

It's kind of like debating which is better, a 302 or a 318, or a 350 or a 360. One is slightly larger than the other, and if you apply similar levels of technology to both, the larger will perform slightly better, while the smaller will be slightly more efficient.


If you're talking about "stopping power" in terms of killing something, I really don't think anyone or anything is going to notice the 200 fps or less difference between a .308 and a .30-06. They're too similar for it to really matter. There are too many other factors (shot placement being a big one) that matter much more than cartridge selection. You might appreciate the half pound or so you'll save in rifle weight, but that's about it.

 

[willypete]

Ha! I made my engine analogy before I read the whole thread, I guess.

For those of you who say there's a replacement for displacement, go ahead and stick your ecoboost v6 in a diesel seagoing vessel and tell me how that works out. Sometimes, you just need a big engine to get things moving.

You guys do realize that an ecoboost engine is turbocharged, right? And when you turbocharge something, you're effectively increasing its displacement, right?

 

[BBDartCA]

Man, maybe we should start a synthetic motor oil versus mineral motor oil thread.

Bottom line, 30-06 is a real man's round. 308 is for the kids & ladies.

 

[willypete]

Hahaha thanks for clearing that up BBDartCA.

 

[lloveless]

ok since everyone thinks the .308 is the equivalent of the 30/06 let see how the two do with a 220 gr bullet at say 200 yds. I'l bet on the '06.
ll

 

[jmr40]

The 308 is about 200 fps slower at the muzzle. Can't think of a single reason to use that bullet weight in either round though.

 

[USSR]

Ridgerunner665,

That new powder is no "miracle" powder that duplicates the velocity of the .30-06. It's not even the best powder for the .308. With N550 behind a 190gr bullet in a .308, I get 2700fps. With RL22 behind the very same 190gr bullet in a .30-06, I get 2900fps. In both instances, barrel length is 26".

Don

 

[jmr40]

Absolutely no way of determining the velocity difference without actually shooting 2 rifles over a chronograph, and even then, the velocity difference is only with those 2 rifles. I have 2 .30-06 match rifles, both with 26" barrels, and with the very same load, one is faster than the other by 75fps.

And I absolutely agree with you. In fact I was at the range Saturday helping a friend get a rifle zeroed. He had worked up several different handloads and we shot a couple over my chronograph and the reading was considerably slower than we expected. On a hunch I tried a couple of his rounds through my gun and it was 130 fps faster with the same ammo. I've seen this many times, but 130 fps was by far the biggest difference.

My post wasn't meant to be absolute proof of actual velocity. Sure there will be differences from what is published. Looking at the charts is all relative. some rifles will shoot to almost exactly what is published. Some rifles will shoot loads a bit faster than expected, others slower.

How about some real velocities. I load for hunting rifles in several calibers including 308 and 30-06. All have 20" or 22" barrels. 165 gr bullets have proven to be the most accurate. I can load the 308's to with in 40 fps of the 30-06 before I start getting signs of excessive pressure. I CAN load the 30-06 faster, but not feel comfortable with those loads, in my rifles.

I'm not knocking anyones darling 30-06. It is one of my favorite rounds. But with todays lighter 308 rifles I'll trade a couple of pounds of rifle to carry in the mountains for 50-100 fps any day. In rifles of equal weight, there is no reason not to go ahead and choose the 30-06.

 

[303tom]

.308 is just .30-06 lite !

 

[morcey2]

.308 is just .30-06 lite !

It's not short, it's fun-size!

 

[lloveless]

I have a Remington 788 in .308. My son has a Remington 720? in 30/06. His gun is lighter than mine. You can use 220 grs for moose, elk, bear to name a few. Of course if you go to Africa the list gets larger.
ll

 

[barnetmill]

I do see an advantage to the 30-06 with the longer solid copper bullets due to the increased capacity. I started with 30-06 because many yrs ago there where cheap surplus rifles and ammo. Now days for both calibers there are neither. For an all around hunting rifle I choose the 30-06. For self defense it is the .308 since there are not many semiauto battle rifles in 30-06 with the exception of the Garand.

 

[Maverick223]

There's no replacement for displacement and 30/06 is just bigger than 308

Very well said. Despite advances in powder and projectiles the .308Win. will never be able to match the modern .30-06Spd. It might match ye olde loads, but advancements are continual for both, as they both have been and remain to be extemely popular chamberings. Personally I have little use in the .308Win. cartridge, as I believe the 7mm-08Rem. and .260Rem. fit the capacity of the case better, and exceed the performance (not with respect to energy, but rather SD and BC...the figures that matter for real world performance). They also achieve this with less recoil (to match that lighter rifle) than the cartridge touted to replace the grand old '06.

 

[jnoble87]

I recently laughed at a friend for switching from a Savage chambered in .30-06 to a Tikka chambered in .308Win..Because he wanted "something with more range".....

The .308 is nice, but...For what you can get out of a .30-06 in versatility and longevity of service to troops and civilians alike...30-06 wins all day long.

 

[heeler]

They both have their place and I own both.
But I prefer the .308 because it can be had in a short action and I prefer my short action and short barrel carbine for walk hunting and the .308 does very well ballistically and in real life with short barreled rifles.
Either will take down deer,antelope,caribou,moose,elk,etc.
Why argue about it??

 

[zxcvbob]

So has anybody tried CFE 223 powder in a Garand yet? I sent an email to Hodgdon's about it and of course never received so much as a "FU" response. Looking at the .223 and .308 and .270 load data, it should work -- unless it doesn't like being down-loaded to .30-06 pressures or % fill.

 

[Robert101]

I don't really care about the .308 vs 30-06 comparison. I choose the .308 because it has sufficient velocity with a good ballistic coefficient and sectional density to meet my needs in a 30 caliber bullet to work in a certain rifle format. AND, yea it is very close to the great (yea great) 30-06 round. I'm good with a 100 to say 150 fps reduction in velocity. Now the really bad news.......... If I want more power, I'm skipping the 30-06 and going right to the 300 WM in a long action. Sorry but that's the way I see it.

 

[RickMD]

In cars and cartridges, all things being equal, nothing beats cubic inches and the '06 has more than the .308. It's simple physics.

 

[XxBulletBendeRXx]

In cars and cartridges, all things being equal, nothing beats cubic inches and the '06 has more than the .308. It's simple physics.

Yet they shoot the same bullets...

 

[RickMD]

Yet they shoot the same bullets...

Yes and the one with more cubic inches will push those bullets faster.

 

[jbr]

Sounds like everyone is trying to make a .308 perform like a 30-06. Why not just get the 06? Great commercial ammo available - everywhere. I prefer federal 165 nosler ballistic tips or 180gr high perf. for larger game - nearly the same drop as the 165's - pretty impressive - hunt both without having to adjust the scope. I also like the hornady super perf. gmx. The federal 180's are this part number SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: P3006TT4
Category: AMMO CENTERFIRE
Caliber :30-06 Springfield
Bullet Type :Trophy Bonded Tip
Bullet Weight :180 GR
Muzzle Energy :3315 ft lbs
Muzzle Velocity :2880 fps
can't even find them listed on the federal site for some reason but plenty for sale.

 

[No4Mk1*]

.30-06 will always be 100+ ft/sec faster Than the .308, however (comparing 150g bullets) in 1906 the .30-06 produced 2700-2750ft/sec. Powder advances produce 2910 as "standard" today with The '06 and 2820 with the 308. Recent advances such as hornady superformance ammo produces 3080 for the .30-06 and 2940 for the 308 using GMX 150 grain bullets. Bullet advances such as the TSX and GMX allow a 150 grain projectile to match the capabilities of a traditional 180+ grain bullet.

Personally having ammo comonality with semi-auto's, & saving a couple pennies per cartridge justify 308 for ME. I understand that my 308 loaded to today's capabilities is superior to the .30-06 of decades past. I am actually fine with 2700ft/sec so thus far i just load to that level for deer hunting.

Everyone gets an opinion and that is mine.