Goodbye to S&B 00 Buck

[CWL]

Got a chance to shoot 233 rds of S&B 00 Buck in a course. I can now confidently say that this is nothing more than blasting ammo and not fit for SD/HD useage. (It was cheap at only ~$60 case)

It patterns about 3X wider in my Beretta 1201fp as well as in a 870. Comparison shooting using 80 rds of Federal 00 and 000 Tactical Reduced loads both patterned about 1/3 the spread of S&B. I also noticed that the spread of S&B tended to go lateraly rather than vertically. Testing distances were 5-10-15-20 yards both standing and on the move. Even @ 10 yards, the spread was outside a head-sized target.

I think that how the shells are loaded (felt wad only, rather than plastic cap + buffers) contribute to the wider spread and resulting inaccuracy of this load.

I have seen why one really shouldn't go cheap when choosing defensive loads.

 

[foghornl]

CWL:

Shotguns are almost as persnickety about ammo as .22LR autoloaders. Did anyone else try this ammo? I haven't fired any S&B shotgun ammo, but their pistol stuff works well for me (.45ACP).

My shotty doesn't pattern worth a darn with 0 or 00, but using 3"Mag #4 Buck....watch out. At 30 Yds, I might get 2 to 4 of 0/00 on a 24"x24" square. With the #4, count averages 35 out of 41 pellets.

 

[Delmar]

if your domicile is fairly small, then S&B might be the way to go if I read this correctly-such as apartments and such.
My town house has one area where you will have a shot 10 yards or a bit longer-other than that you are looking at less than 5. Haven't tried the S&B in my 870 yet, but now I will-this weekend if I can.
Actually, due to the short distances in Delmar's Rio Not Quite so Grande, I have been packing it with #8 2 3/4 shells, mainly because of the wife who doesn't like the recoil. That, I think is primarily due to her difficulty in properly stocking the weapon. She is 5 foot even and mine has a 10 shot magazine which puts most of the weight foreward, plus the full length stock makes her left arm reach quite a ways to the forarm. Still, with a turkey full choke, there isn't much spread with either Federal or Winchester field loads.

 

[Soap]

S&B makes good rifle and pistol rounds, but their buck is notorious for given really shoddy patterns.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, CWL, never used the stuff and never will.

While it's impossible to predict which good buck load will pattern tightest in a given shotgun, it's not so hard to predict that bad ammo willl do badly.

Except for practice and fun, I see little need for this.

Delmar, the big advantage of a shotgun for HD is not spread, but it's ability to dump an enormous amount of energy into a target. Spread, with it lessened energy and possibility of pellets tragically astray, it not what we want.

How about measuring that longest shot opp and patterning your load of choice at that range plus a yard? If either buck or those 8s fits into a spread palm sized or smaller, you're set.

And how about buying you Wife her own shotgun? I bet she'll love one...

Remington's Youth Express 870 in 28 gauge has enough moxie for HD, weighs 6 lbs, and the stock's closer to her specs.Same controls and MOA as yours, less weight and kick.

And a 28 gauge field load is a roughly 54 caliber
225 grain psuedo-Glazer Safety Slug moving at about 1200 FPS. At HD ranges, lots of stopping power...

 

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Remington's Youth Express 870 in 20 gauge has enough moxie for HD, weighs 6 lbs, and the stock's closer to her specs

I second that notion! A shooting partner of mine purchased one not so long ago. Perfect for my girlfriend and I might be picking one up for her (legally).

 

[Azrael256]

I tried S&B in an old Ithica double, and a mossy 500A with a modified choke. I was unimpressed with the pattern from the double, but the mossy patterned well enough to hit real tight within about 15 feet. Given the size of my house, that's good enough.

 

[Navy joe]

I agree, I think the lack of a shot cup really hampers this load. The other deciding factor is it seems the balls are dead soft and probably deform a lot on the way out. From observation of action shotgunning on steel you can always spot the S&B user because each individual print on the steel is huge compared to other loads, telling me it's really soft and just mushing completely flat when it hits the steel. Federal #4 buck for me thanks.

 

[106rr]

Old fashioned buck loads like Eley and S&B without a shotcup limit your accuracy when you switch to slugs without cleaning the bore.
Try shooting slugs for group then the dirty buck and then slugs for group again. Eley at least patterns a little better than S&B.

 

[Delmar]

Good advice, McC. It's why I would try it on full choke just to see if the S&B would do me okay. I have had excellent results with either Federal or W-W #8's as it does not scatter really at all-like 3 inches at 10 yards. Even if it doesn't work well, its always a fun thing to send a load down range!
Mrs Delmar would like to try a youth 870 in 20 gauge but I am leaning towards the 28 for her as I think the kick is less. IIRC, the 28 gauge is built on the 20 gauge frame? No mag extension on it and a short barrel-do you know if the 28 has Rem-chokes? Just might have to go with a 20-she's half Italian and Scott and once she has made up her mind-its a done deal.......

 

[3 gun]

The unprotected shot, open pattern is why I use S&B buck in my HD gun. After patterning some of the 00 buck loads it became clear that a 2" group was going to be normal at house ranges. That was until I tried S&B. Granted the load does limit your max range outdoors but it does improve you chance of a good hit and lowers the danger of over penetration indoors. Good example of why you must check your load/gun combo at the ranges you'll most likely have to use it. The shell holder carries 2 slugs and 4 normal 00 loads if I have to leave the close confines of the house.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I've had no problems at all keeping all of the pellets inside the chest area of a standard silhouette at 7 yards.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Delmar, the 20 gauige Youth Express here is a hard kicker with oz loads, still emphatic with the 7/8 oz load of choice.

The 28 gauge is built on the 20 gauge frame. Weight about 6 lbs, and don't expect to see many on the used market. Their owners seem a happy lot.

The 28 is Remchoked, but remember the lighter charge needs a bit more choke to keep density up.
I'd not use anything more open than Mod except for Skeet, but YMMV.

BTW and OT, Mom was Sicilian-Irish,Pop an all American mix of Scots Irish, Welsh, English, Highlander,Cherokee,Choctaw with a shot of Pa Dutch. Talk about stubborn! I seem to have inherited it all...

As for MAg extensions for the 28, ask George Stringer down on the Smithing Forum. However, I'd be tempted to leave it alone. 4 rounds of 28 gauge ammo is a lot of HD when applied properly..

 

[AV1611]

I made the mistake of buying 2 cases of S&B 12 ga 00. Out of my Mossberg 590 the pattern is about 12" at 15'. I still have tons of it left, unfortunately.

AV1611 out...

 

[Duke of Lawnchair]

I made the mistake of buying 2 cases of S&B 12 ga 00. Out of my Mossberg 590 the pattern is about 12" at 15'. I still have tons of it left, unfortunately.

12" at 5 yards?!?

 

[Snowdog]

Strange, I never had a problem with S&B 00B shells. I purchased 200 shells of 3" 00B of the 12 pellet 1 1/4oz variety and found that the spread was ideal for the ranges of defense from my mossberg 500.

Now, if I wanted the patterns associated with a turkey gun, I wouldn't want to use these shells.

 

[Riphalman]

I'm with ya, snowdog...

Sidesaddle on my Mossy 500 holds the same load. I have absolute confidence in it. Who would care to be on the wrong end of one of those?

 

[Delmar]

McC, I thought the same thing about the 20-they are lighter, but a good 3" load is about the same as a 12 gauge field load so I don't think I'm going to gain anything by going in that direction. The 28 sounds like a great idea, and I was not going to consider putting a mag extension on it because I thought it would put us right back in the weight problem she has with the 12. I did teach her to fire from the hip o the 12 and she does so-so with that, so I do think the 28 might be best.
BTW, I bought some S&B 00 and went to the range, and it patterned a bit loose out of the IC choke, but the pattern went really bad with the modified. Me thinks I will stay with the bird shot at the house. The other thing I played with were slugs-I had always heard you should use cylinder or IC with them, but the Rem slugs gave me the best at 50 yards-about 2.5 inches with the modified choke. I've heard it said that one test is worth a thousand expert opinions, and it turns out to be so in this case!

 

[Dave McCracken]

Delmar, at one point in the past, I was expected to qualify to better than 90% hip shooting an 870 riot model, AND teach a bunch of COs to pass doing the same. I qualified, but it took much more work tha standard. Some of the rookies couldn't.

No one does as well from the hip,so get her that light 28, and maybe some professional instruction. Spouses make poor instructors, trust me on this.

As for slugs and buck, each barrel has its own law. Testing is the only answer...

 

[Oleg Volk]

Patterns tightly in one SG, sparsely out of another. YMMV