GOP mulls ending birthright citizenship

[longeyes]

Hey, don't let those innocent little faces fool ya.

 

[Waitone]

Amendment XIV says: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

Since we just love the written word, could someone explain the meaning of the underlined phrase?

 

[RealGun]

In the interest of saving bandwith why don't we agree that Amending the Constitution is the way to go and then discuss the issue with that in mind.

Forcing the discussion into our preferred context would not represent reality, i.e. how the law is likely to address the issue.

 

[Cosmoline]

Since we just love the written word, could someone explain the meaning of the underlined phrase?

As was noted earlier, diplomats from foreign nations are not subject to US jurisdiction but may still have children born here. The newborns would not be considered American citizens under the 14th, but rather of their native country. US jurisdiction DOES extend to illegals. They have no diplomatic immunity.

 

[Cosmoline]

ditto

 

[DRZinn]

How can a newborn infant, delivered in a US hospital, be considered an illegal immigrant? How can they be charged with any crime?

It need not be a crime, but look! Someone here whom we never gave permission to come here! Send them home with their parents.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Send them home with their parents.

I agree with that. The baby should be given citizenship, and the parents can then either leave the baby here, to be put up for adoption like any other abandoned baby, or take it back to Mexico with them. The parents should not be allowed to stay. When the baby grows up, it can move to the US as a citizen.

I don't agree with passing an un-Constitutional law, though.

 

[Cosmoline]

It need not be a crime, but look! Someone here whom we never gave permission to come here! Send them home with their parents.

They didn't come here--they were BORN here. Why am I a citizen? I was born here. No other reason. If they're out, why am I in? Do I know for a fact my ancestors were legal? No. It's likely some weren't. Am I the "fruit of a poisonous tree"?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Cosmoline, I agree that the baby should be given US citizenship. What do you think about then either letting the parents go back to Mexico, with or without the baby?

By the same logic that says the baby should not be held accountable for parents being illegal, the parents should not be able to personally benefit from their child being born in the USA.

 

[c_yeager]

It need not be a crime, but look! Someone here whom we never gave permission to come here!

Noone gave you or I permission to be here either. Last time i checked noone needed permission to be born. Frankly, i dont want to live in a place that does require such.

 

[DRZinn]

You all neeed to get rid of the idea that deporting the child would be a punishment. It would simply be setting the situation right.

 

[coylh]

I don't get the fruit analogy. Is that the legal equivalent of "sins of the father"? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sins_of_the_Father)

 

[justashooter]

So the son bears the sins of the father?

Going through a gas station parking lot is something YOU DO with deliberate intent to circumvent the law.

The child cannot be charged with illegal immigration and under the 14th is as much an American as you or I.

"the sins of the father are visited upon the sons of the third and fourth generation"

i don't cut thru gas stations, but know someone who was cited for having done so.

the child cannot benefit from the illegal act of the parent, any more than i can benefit from taking out a life insurance policy on someone and whacking them.
if the law is complied with, there is no benefit. so the benefit is a fruit of illegal activity. children benefiting from illegal act of a parent is contradictory to a basic tenet of english common law, upon which american law is based.

 

[c_yeager]

You all neeed to get rid of the idea that deporting the child would be a punishment. It would simply be setting the situation right.

The problem with your argument is that you havent convinced anyone that a child being born here is a wrong that needs to be righted.

 

[DRZinn]

The true wrong is letting the parents stay because of the baby. I don't necessarily believe that the baby should be deported, but if we decide it should, that doesn't make it a punishment.

 

[longeyes]

This is not about the "sins of the father" being visited on the child. It is about the putative moral virtue and innocence of the child being given the power to exonerate people who have broken the law. Absurd.

We need to amend the Constitution.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Nobody wants uncontrolled immigration, but the fact is that the demographics of this country have been changing since the beginning. It is only recently that immigrants, legal or illegal, have been provided massive amounts of public assistance. That's the real problem, and the argument is not whether or not immigration should be allowed, but how to control it.

The 1965 Immigration Act signed by LBJ did away with the 1924 National Origins Quota System, which discrimated against Africans, Asians, and Southern and Eastern Europeons in favor of immigrants from Northern and Western Europe. The 1965 Act made individual talents and skills or 'close relationship with U.S. citizens' the criteria for admittance. Now, maybe this was more 'fair' in LBJ's mind, but it's still highly discriminatory, and more importantly, misses the point of immigration in the first place.

This country was not made great by highly educated and skilled immigrants, but by poor but industrious and hardworking freedom seeking immigrants wanting to benefit from the fruits of their own labor. The welfare state removes that incentive and instead creates a dependent class. That's not only counter productive, it's an anathema to the founding principles of this country.

If you're a poor, maybe illiterate and non English speaking Mexican without some advanced degree, you have no hope of meeting the criteria with the single exception of having your child born here. The problem is with the rules and the massive amounts of freebies. Remove those, and we'll get immigrants who will assimilate, learn our language, and become Americans rather than second class dependents.

 

[RealGun]

Think of citizenship for a child born of illegal immigrant parents as "unintended consequences". When a loophole is abused, you close it. In practical terms, that loophole provides an incentive for illegal immigration. I seriously doubt that was constitutionally intentional.