Gun cleaning rod question?

[Randy1911]

Today I was listening to "Gun Talk with Tom Gresham" on the radio. He was telling a caller to never use a segmented cleaning rod (like Hoppe's or Outer's 3 piece rods). He said to only use a one piece rod. I have been using the 3 piece rods all of my life and never noticed any problems. What was his thinking behind this statement? Is there something wrong with the 3 piece rods and if so, what and why do they sell them?

 

[killchain]

Dunno.

Apparently the entire US Military is wrong too, according to him.

 

[Hatterasguy]

He is right, never clean from the muzzle to if you can avoid it.

The military is wrong, thats why a ton of Garands have worn out muzzles. Heck most militarys are wrong, thats why my Mosin is counter bored. Swiss got it right out, ever see a counter bored K31?

GI's sticking steel cleaning rounds down the muzzles and going to town is what does them in. Get a good coated one piece rod, if you have to clean from the muzzle use a muzzle guide.

I use Dewey rods since they are US made.

 

[ants]

A whole lot of opinions on the other thread.

Some based on fact, some based on myth. But it's virtually impossible to differentiate between the two.
It's your own personal choice, even though thousands of other guys want to make your choice for you.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=524598

 

[Randy1911]

Thanks Ants !!!

That was a LOT of good reading. I am more confused now than before I read it. I guess I will just keep doing what I have always done. Wipe down the rod before using and always clean from the chamber.

 

[Coolbreeze8804]

I think you have it right Randy. The important bits to know are:
1.Clean from the chamber.
2.Don't stuff gritty things in your barrel.
I think all the rest quickly moves in to the "very fine distinction" and doesn't make much difference in the end...

 

[The Bushmaster]

It's kinda hard to wear steel with brass or aluminum rods. You really have to put some effort into it. Ya kinda have to wonder what you are doing to the leeds when cleaning from the chamber if cleaning from the muzzle is bad. One has to wonder why a 60+ year old Winchester M94 .30WCF still shoots a 1 5/8" spread at 100 yards and it has NEVER been disassembled so it can be cleaned from the chamber. That's right...It has been cleaned from the muzzle all these years...

Now if you are abusive...Then maybe...

I clean from the chamber when ever possible only because cleaning from the muzzle can cause dirt and fouling to get into the moving parts if one is careless.

 

[Deanimator]

The jointed rods pick up abrasives.

I use one piece coated Dewey rods for everything.

The only jointed rod I use is one I keep in my gun box in case I get a stuck case.

 

[RainDodger]

When you push that 3 piece rod into the bore, do you ever hear those joints go "click, click" as they pass the chamber? That's why. There's just a chance there's a sharp edge there that won't be present on a one piece rod. Personally, I don't think it's a big deal, but I have no reason to have multi-piece rods because I don't take them anywhere anyway.

 

[mboylan]

Dunno.

Apparently the entire US Military is wrong too, according to him.


The military wrecks guns long before they're time with improper and too frequent bore cleaning. An upper is supposed to last alot longer than 8000 rounds.

 

[mljdeckard]

I agree, the military overcleans and does a lot of damage.

I have guns which are very accurate, which I clean frequently with a one-piece rod. The others I clean as needed with whatever I want to.

 

[kostyanj]

I broke 3 sets of sectional rods in a matter of 3 days before I bought a Dewey rod. Much stronger and better for the bore

 

[beatcop]

The Army cleans from the breech and has been issuing Otis flex cleaning kits for a while. Sorry, no room for a one piece rods in my ruck.

There's some debate which material to use, some say the aluminum ones will hold grit and turn it into lapping past. As well as the flex issues.

The coated steel one piece versions with bore/chamber guides seem to be the way to go.

 

[killchain]

The Army cleans from the breech and has been issuing Otis flex cleaning kits for a while. Sorry, no room for a one piece rods in my ruck.

There's some debate which material to use, some say the aluminum ones will hold grit and turn it into lapping past. As well as the flex issues.

The coated steel one piece versions with bore/chamber guides seem to be the way to go.

I had both of the kits, including the three-piece rod and the Otis. I always cleaned from the chamber, and honestly 80+% of the time I just used a BoreSnake... unless the barrel absolutely NEEDED cleaning.

Army doctrine specifically trains Soldiers to clean from the chamber, and to push any cleaning devices from chamber to muzzle.

I believe the Army standard for replacing upper receiver's barrels is something like 25,000 rounds.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Seems the military's cleaning practices have changed.

When did this happen? I know in WW2 many a Garand's barrel was ruined by steel cleaning rods going down the muzzle. The Russians did this too, thats why my Mosin is counter bored.

The Swiss didn't issue cleaning rods.




I don't beleive the British did either but I could be wrong. Did the Germans issue cleaning rods or did they just use the rope like the Swiss?

 

[Patriotme]

Dunno.

Apparently the entire US Military is wrong too, according to him.


The military wrecks guns long before they're time with improper and too frequent bore cleaning. An upper is supposed to last alot longer than 8000 rounds.

You are correct about the military wrecking guns long before they should wear out. I am a former Marine and have seen some truly stupid things done to guns in the interest of getting them "Clean."
The military's definition of clean means no carbon.....period. The q-tip comes out light gray after of inspection. It doesn't matter if it's not in a critical area or if the inspection is the locking lugs of a bolt. The q-tip needs to be light gray at worst. Odds are that the armorer inspecting your weapon is on duty that weekend so he's not going to be very empathetic about you wanting to be off.
Soooo......it's a Friday afternoon and you would like to have the opportunity to spend the weekend getting drunk and hopefully layed. Your weapon has to be "Clean" when turned in. What do you do?
I've seen weapons disassembled far beyond what they should be (and on a regular basis). I've seen them cleaned with everything from shaving cream to Spic & Span to brake cleaner. I've seen the parkarizing entirely taken off (brake cleaner) from excessive cleaning. I have done some of this too. 18-22 year olds tend to do what they're shown. It's a self repeating cycle. You're shown a stupid activity and after a few years you're showing some other new person how to do the same stupid actions.
This is truly assinine but it's the culture.
One thing about the earlier statement about the military using 3 piece cleaning rods. The cleaning kit has to fit in a pouch. You cannot roam around the woods (or desert) with a 3" solid rod sticking out of your pocket.

 

[killchain]

You are correct about the military wrecking guns long before they should wear out. I am a former Marine and have seen some truly stupid things done to guns in the interest of getting them "Clean."
The military's definition of clean means no carbon.....period. The q-tip comes out light gray after of inspection. It doesn't matter if it's not in a critical area or if the inspection is the locking lugs of a bolt. The q-tip needs to be light gray at worst. Odds are that the armorer inspecting your weapon is on duty that weekend so he's not going to be very empathetic about you wanting to be off.
Soooo......it's a Friday afternoon and you would like to have the opportunity to spend the weekend getting drunk and hopefully layed. Your weapon has to be "Clean" when turned in. What do you do?
I've seen weapons disassembled far beyond what they should be (and on a regular basis). I've seen them cleaned with everything from shaving cream to Spic & Span to brake cleaner. I've seen the parkarizing entirely taken off (brake cleaner) from excessive cleaning. I have done some of this too. 18-22 year olds tend to do what they're shown. It's a self repeating cycle. You're shown a stupid activity and after a few years you're showing some other new person how to do the same stupid actions.
This is truly assinine but it's the culture.
One thing about the earlier statement about the military using 3 piece cleaning rods. The cleaning kit has to fit in a pouch. You cannot roam around the woods (or desert) with a 3" solid rod sticking out of your pocket.

Yep, the good old shaving cream thing. You'd see Privates in the shower under hot water literally rinsing out their weapons.

Honestly, the best thing I came up with was a 2 inch paintbrush soaked in CLP. Cleans about anything off, isn't harmful, and lubes it up to boot. I recommend this for anyone, for any weapon, at any time.

 

[Sav .250]

I`ve been doing it wrong all these years! Holly cow! Ya, right!

 

[HOWARD J]

I've been shooting for 59 years--I am not in competition or shooting contests.
I never worried about a cleaning rod destroying my gun so it would not shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards.
I use my rifles for hunting--I've been using 3 piece rods ( alum & steel ) for 59 years.
Why the hell should I change now??---To put more money in some other guys pocket.
BS.............................

 

[GoWolfpack]

In honor of Thomas Sowell's "Random Thoughts" columns:

Did the Germans issue cleaning rods or did they just use the rope like the Swiss?

There's a cleaning rod running under the barrel of all my Mausers.

If aluminum will pick up bits of hard stuff and scratch the bore, won't the coating on 1-piece rods do the same?

I've seen them cleaned with everything from shaving cream to Spic & Span to brake cleaner.

But it's the 3-piece cleaning rod that's doing them in? Not really picking on you, but it seemed like other people are saying the cleaning rod was ruining military rifles, but they're cleaning them with brake cleaner. If they just used 1-piece rods, they would be fine scrubbing it out with Comet right?

People clean from the muzzle because it is significantly easier than cleaning from the chamber. For one thing, cleaning from the chamber requires a rod 6-8 inches longer than from the muzzle. I had enough trouble just finding a rod longer than the barrel of my Mosin Nagant. Right or wrong, people take the path of least resistance and most of them will never see any harm done by it.

Today I was listening to "Gun Talk with Tom Gresham" on the radio. He was telling a caller to never use a segmented cleaning rod

He is right, never clean from the muzzle to if you can avoid it.

Non sequitor much?

The military is wrong, thats why a ton of Garands have worn out muzzles.

I know the military moves at a galacial pace, but it's been at least 40 years since the Garand has been in common use in the military. They have changed some things. Like the direction they push the cleaning rods.

The ruined Garand barrel thing, I believe that comes from the draft. Example: pull a rube kid off the farm in Pigsknuckle, Arkansas. He's probably never shot many guns except dad's shotgun and never cleaned that. Hand him the marvel of modern engineering, the M1 Garand, and tell him to clean it. What's he gonna do? Probably get it clean enough to eat off of. No matter what it takes, or if it needs it or not. This standard gets passed down from then until now, the standard being every bit of the gun absolutely devoid of any fouling whatsoever.


My only problems with 3-piece rods have been mushrooming at the joints that keeps the rod from fitting down a .22 caliber barrel. Now that I've got good quality brass rods, that doesn't happen anymore. Few of my rifles are precision machines in the first place, and the Anschutz probably won't be cleaned much at all, if ever.


The main bullet point (pun semi-intended) to take away from this:
Don't stress so much about cleaning the bore unless you're shooting corrosive ammo. Obviously clean it so the rifling grooves don't get clogged up with gunk, but the action internals are, in my opinion at least, more important than the bore to reliable rifle function.