I know many of you hate this question...but I haven't found a good answer regarding women with KNOWN characteristics. My fiancee is very skiddish...afraid of weapons...but willing to go with me. A guy recommended a Lady Smith and Wesson and also a Smith and Wesson Model 638. Which one has less kick? Also, I want to get her pink ear muffs. Anyone know someone who sells them with various colors? Thanks, Tim
Gun For The Fiancee
- Thread starter TimSalai
- Start date
- Status
Tim, do you want her picking out your shoes for you? Buying your car for you? Then do not pick out a gun for her. If you have a number of guns that she is willing to try, great. If you have a .22lr pistol, revolver, or rifle, that's a nice start. But do not go buy her a LadySmith or any other gun on your own.
If I tried to shoot a LadySmith my fingernails would cut open the base of my thumb, the grip is so much too small for me. The right gun for her, at the point that she actually WANTS a gun herself, is the one that fits HER hand, that grabs HER interest, and is one she will practice with to get good with. None of us can know what that gun will be.
Good luck on the ear muffs, though....I have only ever seen black and variants of black and something else.
Springmom
If I tried to shoot a LadySmith my fingernails would cut open the base of my thumb, the grip is so much too small for me. The right gun for her, at the point that she actually WANTS a gun herself, is the one that fits HER hand, that grabs HER interest, and is one she will practice with to get good with. None of us can know what that gun will be.
Good luck on the ear muffs, though....I have only ever seen black and variants of black and something else.
Springmom
fletcher
Member
+1 to what springmom said. Don't choose one for her. Take her to the range and rent a variety of guns, then let her choose one.
Can't say I know of any place that sells pink earmuffs, unless you want fuzzy, non-hearing protecting ones
Can't say I know of any place that sells pink earmuffs, unless you want fuzzy, non-hearing protecting ones
Ozark Tracker
Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Messages
- 18
I think TimSalai is right about starting her off with a 22, started my wife off with one several years ago, let her shoot it as much as she will, don't stick her with a gun right off the bat, let her get the feel for shooting first.
my wife has her Concealed carry lic. now and picked out a Springfield Armory EMP about 3 months ago, that little 9 mm sure shoots good. no noticable kick. I relaod for 9mm so she goes out here behind the house and shoots all she wants 600 to 700 rounds through her EMP so far.
sounds like your fiancee is willing to take a look, don't try to feed her the whole meal at once, make it a smorgesboard for her, one step at a time
good luck.
my wife has her Concealed carry lic. now and picked out a Springfield Armory EMP about 3 months ago, that little 9 mm sure shoots good. no noticable kick. I relaod for 9mm so she goes out here behind the house and shoots all she wants 600 to 700 rounds through her EMP so far.
sounds like your fiancee is willing to take a look, don't try to feed her the whole meal at once, make it a smorgesboard for her, one step at a time
good luck.
TallPine
Member
I think you have bigger questions to think about
Springmom
My fiancee has my complete trust in her ability to buy me shoes I'll like...and I'd be confident she would buy me the RIGHT car since she knows me. I'm merely asking which guns are best for kick with a woman I KNOW WELL!!!! Really read what I wrote before asking misdirected questions. You might want to see the heart in what someone writes before you get in their face.
I don't know guns...buying my first one too....so we'll both learn together. I made it clear that I read a lot of what people wrote...so you don't have to give me the same ol line that I shouldn't buy her a gun....
My fiancee has my complete trust in her ability to buy me shoes I'll like...and I'd be confident she would buy me the RIGHT car since she knows me. I'm merely asking which guns are best for kick with a woman I KNOW WELL!!!! Really read what I wrote before asking misdirected questions. You might want to see the heart in what someone writes before you get in their face.
I don't know guns...buying my first one too....so we'll both learn together. I made it clear that I read a lot of what people wrote...so you don't have to give me the same ol line that I shouldn't buy her a gun....
fletcher
Member
^ OK, that does change the situation a little bit, seeing as you aren't experienced with firearms. If you are both starting, invest in a Ruger .22 pistol or something similar to get started on. Good (and cheap) way to work on technique and have fun.
Tim, calm down. You asked a question that cannot be answered.
Everybody has their own experience of recoil. The first gun I ever shot was a .22 rifle; but when I bought my first handgun, it was a Springfield XD-40 For me, handgun recoil is no big deal. For other people, a .40 kicks like a mule. That, by the way, is true for men and women...so it could be that she'll eventually really go for big bore guns and you won't like them, or vice versa, or you'll both end up with his-and-hers Super Redhawks.
You got some advice on two different guns, and you asked us which has more recoil, and what I'm trying to say is, it depends. Depends on her hand size. Depends on the level of skittishness she really has and its roots (is she afraid of guns because she had a bad experience, because they're loud, because they're powerful, or just because?) Depends on what ammunition you put in either gun. If you put little wadcutters from Sellier and Belliot in them, either one would, to me, have little recoil.
You did not say that the two of you will be learning together. That's nice.
Maybe you can find a range that rents guns and both of you can start with .22lr revolvers and pistols and see how that goes. It sounds to me like going slow with her on this will be a good strategy. Which leads back to my original comment. Don't buy her a gun. She has to buy the one she wants, the one that fits her hand, and you cannot possibly, despite all your good intentions, know which one that will be.
Springmom
Everybody has their own experience of recoil. The first gun I ever shot was a .22 rifle; but when I bought my first handgun, it was a Springfield XD-40
For me, handgun recoil is no big deal. For other people, a .40 kicks like a mule. That, by the way, is true for men and women...so it could be that she'll eventually really go for big bore guns and you won't like them, or vice versa, or you'll both end up with his-and-hers Super Redhawks. You got some advice on two different guns, and you asked us which has more recoil, and what I'm trying to say is, it depends. Depends on her hand size. Depends on the level of skittishness she really has and its roots (is she afraid of guns because she had a bad experience, because they're loud, because they're powerful, or just because?) Depends on what ammunition you put in either gun. If you put little wadcutters from Sellier and Belliot in them, either one would, to me, have little recoil.
You did not say that the two of you will be learning together. That's nice.
Maybe you can find a range that rents guns and both of you can start with .22lr revolvers and pistols and see how that goes. It sounds to me like going slow with her on this will be a good strategy. Which leads back to my original comment. Don't buy her a gun. She has to buy the one she wants, the one that fits her hand, and you cannot possibly, despite all your good intentions, know which one that will be.
Springmom
Cougfan2
Member
ArmedBear, please tell me those aren't your shoes!
Can someone tell me if these glasses are protective enough>
http://www.shoebuy.com/rockstar-eyewear-ifunk-78/158069/364525?cm_mmc=cj-feed-_-none-_-none-_-none
Thanks
http://www.shoebuy.com/rockstar-eyewear-ifunk-78/158069/364525?cm_mmc=cj-feed-_-none-_-none-_-none
Thanks
Tim ~
Welcome to THR. I hope you find lots of good information here and have a pleasant time doing it.
As newer shooters, you and your fiancee both have a lot you need to learn. That's okay -- learning is a big part of the fun of firearms. Depending on your interests, you could learn about history (not just military history, either; the history of arms is the history of human scientific achievement). You could learn about cowboys, about physics, about ballistics, about Olympic-level competitions, about -- oh, about any number of things tangentally related to firearms. And you could learn about firearms themselves, how they are put together, how they are used, and so on. It's a big world and there's lots to learn.
In the meanwhile, the first question to ask yourself is, "Why are we looking for a firearm?" What do you want that firearm to do? Are you & your fiancee interested in target shooting? Competition? Self-defense? Collecting?
The next question to ask is, "How much are we willing to spend?" If you are looking specifically for concealable defensive handguns, you can realistically expect to spend a minimum of $400 for a decent semi-automatic (slightly less if you go with a used revolver), plus another $200 should be budgeted for accessories such as a solid belt and a holster, those pink ear muffs, good eyewear, spare magazines or speedloaders, and so on. If you are not interested in carrying the gun, you can scratch holster & belt off the accessories list, but you will still need the other items. For target shooting, you will need eye protection, ear protection, and at least one magazine or speedloader. The targets themselves and ammunition will be an ongoing expense -- and no matter which caliber gun you choose, the cost of ammunition will soon rival the cost of the gun itself. It is absolutely worthwhile to factor the cost of ammunition in when you consider which gun to buy, if money is at all tight.
With these two basic questions answered, the next big watershed question is, "Semi-automatic or Revolver?" You will find huge proponents of both firearms types on this site and everywhere else on the web too. I really recommend that you read as much about this choice as possible, both here and elsewhere. As you evaluate the arguments, you'll have a chance to ask yourselves what kind of gun owners you intend to be -- are you going to practice regularly? Are you committed to learning how to shoot well and run the gun safely and efficiently? There is no gun out there which does not require some level of practice and knowledge in order to use safely, but some guns are more complex than others.
The next big watershed question is, "Which caliber do I want?" As hinted above, this can be a budget question because ammunition does cost money. As new shooters, it is absolutely important that you are willing to burn lots of ammunition up in order to learn to shoot safely and well. If you are reluctant to shoot because of the cost, you only hurt yourself. So take that cost into account. If you are looking for a defense gun, do a little research about the phrase "stopping power." Do not just read one source on this one because ... well, because it's a hot button issue and a lot of the folks arguing about calibers online do have issues. So do some research and be aware that you'll have to make up your own mind about what is important to you.
Another question to explore: "How much ammunition should my gun carry?" Again, personal choice. Research it.
If you are going with a semi-automatic firearm, another question you might ask is, "Do I want or need an external, manually operated safety on my firearm?" Again, there are pros and cons to both sides of that argument, plenty of heated opinions everywhere, and more research for you to do.
And you can ask, "What kind of trigger pull do I prefer: DAO, DA/SA, SA?" If you can get your hands on the guns in a gun store, often the shopkeepers will allow you to dryfire, pulling the trigger without any ammunition in the gun. This lets you check how different triggers feel to you.
Closely related to this is the question, "Am I willing to practice and master the task of learning two separate trigger pulls on a DA/SA semi-auto?" Nothing wrong with a DA/SA gun but if you choose one you should be aware that some folks have a difficult time mastering the transition between the first (heavy) pull and the subsequent (light) pulls.
Finally we get down to questions about gun size, weight, and aesthetics. These are again very personal questions, especially for a defensive handgun. Whatever you get should really fit your hand (see www.corneredcat.com/FirstGun/tryongun.aspx for more about that). How heavy or light it is depends somewhat on your personal tolerance for recoil, how (or whether) you'll be carrying the gun, and what other features you are willing to trade away in order to get a gun the size and weight of the one you want.
As you can see, there are just a lot of variables to consider and some of the variables are very personal.
Please let your fiancee know that an important part of the whole learn-to-shoot process is choosing her own gun. You can't do it for her because she needs the education she will get along the way. You can't even just narrow it down to three similar choices and let her eeny-meeny-miny-moe between those choices, because she needs that education if she is serious about learning to shoot and learning to defend herself. You cannot and should not narrow it down for her, or simply let her jump right past the major decision points, because the major branching choices (semi or revolver? DAO, DA, SA, striker fired? manual safety or no? polymer or metal? caliber choice?) each represent important learning points. Facing each fork in the road always brings up related opportunities for personal reflection, too -- which is very important for her own personal journey into responsible self defense.
For example, the choice between semi-auto and revolver often also prompts the beginner to consider whether she is serious about learning more, or whether she just wants a gun she can toss in a drawer somewhere. That's one small but important bit of self-knowledge which is prompted by this first major choice. The other major choices all represent similar opportunities for personal reflection, reflection that is necessary if her initial wish to defend herself is to grow into that rare and necessary hard knot of resolve to do whatever it takes.
Your role should be to find good resources for more information, to suggest variants she might try and to steer her away from dangerously bad choices, but you shouldn't be guiding her toward any particular choice. Help her educate herself in all the trade-offs that are involved, while leaving her entirely free to make her own decisions, and you'll both be happier with the final result.
Finally, as Springmom said, someone really can't pick out a specific gun for another person for the same reason you can't buy someone else a specific pair of shoes: measuring the fit. She has to try the guns on herself to see if they fit her hands. You can't do that for her without her involvement because you cannot climb inside her skin and feel what she feels when she holds the gun, just as you literally cannot step into her shoes to see if they fit her feet.
So before you guys get down to individual guns, back up a bit and talk over the major questions outlined above. Do a little research.
Then come back here and ask more questions. We'll be glad to help you out!
pax
Welcome to THR.
I hope you find lots of good information here and have a pleasant time doing it. As newer shooters, you and your fiancee both have a lot you need to learn. That's okay -- learning is a big part of the fun of firearms. Depending on your interests, you could learn about history (not just military history, either; the history of arms is the history of human scientific achievement). You could learn about cowboys, about physics, about ballistics, about Olympic-level competitions, about -- oh, about any number of things tangentally related to firearms. And you could learn about firearms themselves, how they are put together, how they are used, and so on. It's a big world and there's lots to learn.
In the meanwhile, the first question to ask yourself is, "Why are we looking for a firearm?" What do you want that firearm to do? Are you & your fiancee interested in target shooting? Competition? Self-defense? Collecting?
The next question to ask is, "How much are we willing to spend?" If you are looking specifically for concealable defensive handguns, you can realistically expect to spend a minimum of $400 for a decent semi-automatic (slightly less if you go with a used revolver), plus another $200 should be budgeted for accessories such as a solid belt and a holster, those pink ear muffs, good eyewear, spare magazines or speedloaders, and so on. If you are not interested in carrying the gun, you can scratch holster & belt off the accessories list, but you will still need the other items. For target shooting, you will need eye protection, ear protection, and at least one magazine or speedloader. The targets themselves and ammunition will be an ongoing expense -- and no matter which caliber gun you choose, the cost of ammunition will soon rival the cost of the gun itself. It is absolutely worthwhile to factor the cost of ammunition in when you consider which gun to buy, if money is at all tight.
With these two basic questions answered, the next big watershed question is, "Semi-automatic or Revolver?" You will find huge proponents of both firearms types on this site and everywhere else on the web too. I really recommend that you read as much about this choice as possible, both here and elsewhere. As you evaluate the arguments, you'll have a chance to ask yourselves what kind of gun owners you intend to be -- are you going to practice regularly? Are you committed to learning how to shoot well and run the gun safely and efficiently? There is no gun out there which does not require some level of practice and knowledge in order to use safely, but some guns are more complex than others.
The next big watershed question is, "Which caliber do I want?" As hinted above, this can be a budget question because ammunition does cost money. As new shooters, it is absolutely important that you are willing to burn lots of ammunition up in order to learn to shoot safely and well. If you are reluctant to shoot because of the cost, you only hurt yourself. So take that cost into account. If you are looking for a defense gun, do a little research about the phrase "stopping power." Do not just read one source on this one because ... well, because it's a hot button issue and a lot of the folks arguing about calibers online do have issues. So do some research and be aware that you'll have to make up your own mind about what is important to you.
Another question to explore: "How much ammunition should my gun carry?" Again, personal choice. Research it.
If you are going with a semi-automatic firearm, another question you might ask is, "Do I want or need an external, manually operated safety on my firearm?" Again, there are pros and cons to both sides of that argument, plenty of heated opinions everywhere, and more research for you to do.
And you can ask, "What kind of trigger pull do I prefer: DAO, DA/SA, SA?" If you can get your hands on the guns in a gun store, often the shopkeepers will allow you to dryfire, pulling the trigger without any ammunition in the gun. This lets you check how different triggers feel to you.
Closely related to this is the question, "Am I willing to practice and master the task of learning two separate trigger pulls on a DA/SA semi-auto?" Nothing wrong with a DA/SA gun but if you choose one you should be aware that some folks have a difficult time mastering the transition between the first (heavy) pull and the subsequent (light) pulls.
Finally we get down to questions about gun size, weight, and aesthetics. These are again very personal questions, especially for a defensive handgun. Whatever you get should really fit your hand (see www.corneredcat.com/FirstGun/tryongun.aspx for more about that). How heavy or light it is depends somewhat on your personal tolerance for recoil, how (or whether) you'll be carrying the gun, and what other features you are willing to trade away in order to get a gun the size and weight of the one you want.
As you can see, there are just a lot of variables to consider and some of the variables are very personal.
Please let your fiancee know that an important part of the whole learn-to-shoot process is choosing her own gun. You can't do it for her because she needs the education she will get along the way. You can't even just narrow it down to three similar choices and let her eeny-meeny-miny-moe between those choices, because she needs that education if she is serious about learning to shoot and learning to defend herself. You cannot and should not narrow it down for her, or simply let her jump right past the major decision points, because the major branching choices (semi or revolver? DAO, DA, SA, striker fired? manual safety or no? polymer or metal? caliber choice?) each represent important learning points. Facing each fork in the road always brings up related opportunities for personal reflection, too -- which is very important for her own personal journey into responsible self defense.
For example, the choice between semi-auto and revolver often also prompts the beginner to consider whether she is serious about learning more, or whether she just wants a gun she can toss in a drawer somewhere. That's one small but important bit of self-knowledge which is prompted by this first major choice. The other major choices all represent similar opportunities for personal reflection, reflection that is necessary if her initial wish to defend herself is to grow into that rare and necessary hard knot of resolve to do whatever it takes.
Your role should be to find good resources for more information, to suggest variants she might try and to steer her away from dangerously bad choices, but you shouldn't be guiding her toward any particular choice. Help her educate herself in all the trade-offs that are involved, while leaving her entirely free to make her own decisions, and you'll both be happier with the final result.
Finally, as Springmom said, someone really can't pick out a specific gun for another person for the same reason you can't buy someone else a specific pair of shoes: measuring the fit. She has to try the guns on herself to see if they fit her hands. You can't do that for her without her involvement because you cannot climb inside her skin and feel what she feels when she holds the gun, just as you literally cannot step into her shoes to see if they fit her feet.
So before you guys get down to individual guns, back up a bit and talk over the major questions outlined above. Do a little research.
Then come back here and ask more questions. We'll be glad to help you out!
pax
yesit'sloaded
Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,662
Keep in mind that a snubby revolver is really more of an expert's gun. It takes a lot of practice to hit anything past 10 feet and with +p loads the recoil can be brutal. I love my J frame in .38, but if I was to chose a gun for my girlfriend it would probably be something in the .380-.40 range. That and grips can make a world of difference. I could not hit anything past 10 yards with shooting DA with the stock grips. A set of Hogue monogrips solved that problem and made it easier to draw from my paddle holster as well.
No, those don't look like safety glasses.
Try this link: http://ma.charmandhammer.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=6Eye
pax
Try this link: http://ma.charmandhammer.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=6Eye
pax
TIMSALI - "I don't know guns...buying my first one too....so we'll both learn together. I made it clear that I read a lot of what people wrote...so you don't have to give me the same ol line that I shouldn't buy her a gun...."
Tim, as others suggested, go to a range where you can rent and shoot different handguns. Find what fits your and your fiancee's hands best.
But... if you both really want to learn to shoot accurately, and understand the fundamentals and SAFETY practices, start on either a .22 revolver or pistol.
You can learn all the above, plus do a tremendous amount of practice without costing a small fortune. .22 L.R. ammo is cheap; centerfire ammo is NOT!
When I got married years ago, my wife had never seen a real gun other than when a police officer passed by with his sidearm in a holster. I started her off on my .22 handguns. After about "three bricks" of .22 (1,500 rounds), when she was very familiar with "the rules" and safety, and was very comfortable handling handguns, I moved her up to a S&W 15 .38 Spec., using target loads. After a lot of shooting with those, we went to the "full house" rounds.
Now, she owns two S&W .38 Specials, has her CCW, and carries one. She has shot all my handguns, from .45 ACP/.45 Colt down to the .22s, and is not afraid of them whatsoever.
So, my suggestion is what I -- and others -- said above. Rent some handguns at a range AND GET SOME PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTION, for both of you.
You should not have any problems after that.
Good luck.
L.W.
Tim, as others suggested, go to a range where you can rent and shoot different handguns. Find what fits your and your fiancee's hands best.
But... if you both really want to learn to shoot accurately, and understand the fundamentals and SAFETY practices, start on either a .22 revolver or pistol.
You can learn all the above, plus do a tremendous amount of practice without costing a small fortune. .22 L.R. ammo is cheap; centerfire ammo is NOT!
When I got married years ago, my wife had never seen a real gun other than when a police officer passed by with his sidearm in a holster. I started her off on my .22 handguns. After about "three bricks" of .22 (1,500 rounds), when she was very familiar with "the rules" and safety, and was very comfortable handling handguns, I moved her up to a S&W 15 .38 Spec., using target loads. After a lot of shooting with those, we went to the "full house" rounds.
Now, she owns two S&W .38 Specials, has her CCW, and carries one. She has shot all my handguns, from .45 ACP/.45 Colt down to the .22s, and is not afraid of them whatsoever.
So, my suggestion is what I -- and others -- said above. Rent some handguns at a range AND GET SOME PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTION, for both of you.
You should not have any problems after that.
Good luck.
L.W.
No, she needs protective eyewear that will not shatter when a brass casing comes flying back and smacks her in the glasses. That rules out most regular sunglasses.
Go to a sporting goods store and look around; they'll have them at or near the gun counter.
Springmom
Go to a sporting goods store and look around; they'll have them at or near the gun counter.
Springmom
TimSalai,
The advice given applies to any new shooter, whether it's for you or your finance. Guns that "fit" are more enjoyable to shoot than those that don't. It has nothing to do with if you are a guy or not, married or not. It's just ergonomics. Since ergonomics are based on the individual and how the tool fits them everyone will tell you the same thing.
For new shooters, though, there are some pretty common bits of advice that are universal. Get a good .22. Pay for the good ammo.There, that's it. Nothing will put off a new shooter quicker than trying to learn to enjoy shooting with something with too much bang that doesn't work every time and that is too small to handle comfortably. That said, a 90 lb female friend of mine hates .22s and loves .45. Go figure.
As to eye and ear protection -
Get the electronic muffs if you can. They make having conversations much easier and talking about what you're doing while shooting is part of the fun.
Good luck.
The advice given applies to any new shooter, whether it's for you or your finance. Guns that "fit" are more enjoyable to shoot than those that don't. It has nothing to do with if you are a guy or not, married or not. It's just ergonomics. Since ergonomics are based on the individual and how the tool fits them everyone will tell you the same thing.
For new shooters, though, there are some pretty common bits of advice that are universal. Get a good .22. Pay for the good ammo.There, that's it. Nothing will put off a new shooter quicker than trying to learn to enjoy shooting with something with too much bang that doesn't work every time and that is too small to handle comfortably. That said, a 90 lb female friend of mine hates .22s and loves .45. Go figure.
As to eye and ear protection -
No. Never buy anything that isn't ANSI rated or exceeds ANSI rating for impact protection. All glasses are not the same. We only have two eyes and that don't mean that one's a spare. Buy Uvex safety glasses from a safety supply shop, hardware store or the gun shop. Uvex makes a lot of styles and you can be assured of finding a pair that fits anyone. http://safetyglasses.com/
Get the electronic muffs if you can. They make having conversations much easier and talking about what you're doing while shooting is part of the fun.
Good luck.
Stump Water
Member
.22... Pitol or rifle.
What pax said.
Then, if you haven't already, I urge you to try to find a husband/wife (man/woman) team that have a variety of guns that you both can try. If that's not possible then there's the rental route. The point is to try before you buy.
If you let us know what state you're in, there's lots of folks here who shoot with their significant others, and would be more than glad to let you "try out" some options. It's a great way to get your feet wet, assuming the "mentors" are on board with letting your fiancee set her own pace and not pushing her.
Springmom
Springmom
- Status