Gun Shop Blues....

[catspa]

Davek1977: Whether their strategy was wise or not reamins to be seen, but as of now, your fellow shooters are every bit as much to blame as the government is....

This is not technically true, as there are some, perhaps many, of our fellow shooters who stocked up on what they wanted long before it could be considered "hoarding". They were not motivated by the impending Obama presidency, at least I wasn't, but by the common sense belief that the future is uncertain, that when guns/ammo/components are affordable and readily available, a fellow should set some by for when they're not (and the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared"). I haven't purchased much in this climate - I don't feel I need to. I have sold a little, not a lot, mostly to a good friend for a price he could afford, because I wanted him to have it.

To some extent, the present hoarders have reduced the supply of these goods, to a larger extent those who buy, mark up the price stiffly, and resell (I'm speaking of non-dealers here, those who are speculating and not buying for their own use, the opportunists). But the phrase "your fellow shooters" is too broad a brush for that color of paint.

Parker, who finds it a little ironic that the difference between "foresight" and "hoarding" is a function of when you carried it out...

 

[Phydeaux642]

I am not sure why the poster

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is blaming Obama and the Democratic Party.

This is one of the most naive sentiments I have ever come across. Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. It's all about the 2nd amendment. If the election had went the other way (and, yes, I know there were problems there, too) these types of threads wouldn't exist because they wouldn't have to. You could walk into any local shop and find nearly anything you wanted, and the little shops could stock their shelves as well as the big shops.

 

[tinygnat219]

The problem is for your buddy Bob, is that he ran the business as a hobby and an excuse to get out of the house. Not as a business. If he had been running it as such, he wouldn't be having any of these problems right now and he'd be in business.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but the kitchen table FFLs right now are having record years. Why? They think of it as a business and not as a hobby.

 

[Sam1911]

To some extent, the present hoarders have reduced the supply of these goods, to a larger extent those who buy, mark up the price stiffly, and resell (I'm speaking of non-dealers here, those who are speculating and not buying for their own use, the opportunists). But the phrase "your fellow shooters" is too broad a brush for that color of paint.

Parker, who finds it a little ironic that the difference between "foresight" and "hoarding" is a function of when you carried it out...

By the same token, it is ironic that there is a perceived difference between the legitimacy of "dealers" buying something, marking up the price, selling it and making money vs. "opportunists" who are doing exactly the same thing.

If some fellows have a license from the government to do business, does that make their efforts to earn a profit on an investment more ethical than their fellow citizens'?

And, for that matter, what makes purchasing something to resell it less ethical than purchasing it to use it up yourself? What business is it of anyone's what I might choose to do with the property I chose to spend my resources to aquire?

It's just the market. Buyers and sellers. Supply and demand. The opportunity to buy low and sell high.

This isn't air or water, or even food. It's guns and ammunition (mostly) for recreational purposes. (Let's be very honest about that...few of us need ANOTHER rifle or ANOTHER case of ammo to stay alive, at the moment, at least.) ANd the stuff is out there for sale, today, right now. IF you're willing to pay the current market price. And if you NEED it badly enough, you will be. Or, bide your time and the price will fall.

Everyone acts SO righteously indignant.

-Sam

 

[MAKster]

If this dealer was having trouble getting new guns from the distributors he should have increased his sale of used guns. He could have filled the entire store with consignment guns at no cost to him. Used guns also have a higher profit margin.

 

[c5_nc]

At first its difficult to imagine a gun shop having problems now. But I know a local dealer that is just above "kitchen table" status that has to order from the wholesale houses like many small gun shops do, and pickings are slim. Dealers that deal with manufactors directly have a better line to product now. Dealers that are larger wholesale house customers should still have a line on guns. Mostly they are trying to allot stuff out as things were pre-Obama. New Gun dealers have big issues, wholesale outlets and manufactors in some cases are not taking on new accounts. You would think every dealer is doing better now, and pretty everone should have an increase in FFL transfer business, $10-25 a pop for 5-10 minutes of work is not bad.

 

[10-Ring]

That sucks -- I had my favorite shop close several years ago & things just weren't the same afterwards. Hope your friend finds a good way to spend his retirement!

 

[ny32182]

If you are running a business and a big increase in demand puts you out of business... something was wrong with the business model.

 

[Phydeaux642]

If you are running a business and a big increase in demand puts you out of business... something was wrong with the business model.

That's just not correct. Your business model as a Mom & Pop store was working just fine until unheard of demand caused by the "Great Panic" made ordering a few guns or a little ammo at a time impossible. Distributors always bend over backwards for the Big Box guys or larger shops because of the higher volume. Right or wrong that's how it is. I run in to this all of the time where I work. Even though the store I work for sells almost as much as our local big box store does on a store to store basis, we are still at a disadvantage because we don't have the buying power. We are way more knowledgable about the products, but that doesn't help us if we are overlooked because we only do $4 million in sales a year compared to $60 billion.

 

[chuckusaret]

I have a large stock of ammo, at least 1,000 rounds per weapon. I only buy to replace what I fire monthly. I started stocking up long before the idiot got out of grade school. In my book it is called "To Be Prepared".
I don't know the whole story about the OP's buddy going out of business but I do know that I no longer buy anything from the gun shops in my area. Reason: Their outrageous prices. It is not uncommon to see prices higher than MSRP

 

[catspa]

Hey, Sam.

I'm not indignant at anyone, just content with what I've got, for the time being.

Please accept my apologies for not explaining my point clearly. I wasn't making any value judgements in that sentence, or addressing the legitimacy of anything. I was merely saying that buying for one's own use will not reduce the supply of these goods in the market as much as speculating and reselling. The person who buys for his own use is limited to the amount of (whatever) that he can afford. The speculator, after the first cycle, is using someone else's money (plus, perhaps, some or all the profit he realized) to buy larger quantities whenever he can find them. He is limited only by the amount his customers (cumulatively) can afford.

When considering the "dealer vs. speculator" question as a customer, I factor in some other elements than price alone. First of all, I like my local dealers - they're my buds. I want them to succeed, and still be open for business the next time I want something. They have made a commitment to the gun trade that the speculators have not, by maintaining a shop and stocking inventory. They offer other services like gunsmithing and research, some of which they give freely to their good customers. They have contacts with who owns what in the local gun community. And they stand behind what they sell. I'm willing to pay a little extra for all that. So a speculator (who I don't have a working relationship with, who is gonna be long gone if I have a problem, who may or may not have what I want when I want it) has to show me a pretty good deal to get a sale. What I've seen is that speculators want their customers to be desperate, and I'm not.

I'm not saying speculators are unethical or need a license. If you're a speculator, good luck to you. Just understand that I'm outside your market.

Parker

 

[bang_bang]

The problem is for your buddy Bob, is that he ran the business as a hobby and an excuse to get out of the house. Not as a business. If he had been running it as such, he wouldn't be having any of these problems right now and he'd be in business.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but the kitchen table FFLs right now are having record years. Why? They think of it as a business and not as a hobby.

Maybe in your area, but my area is not as wealthy as many places. Jobs are really scarce, and people are so tight up with their money they won't hardly pay money for a gun. Also, his problem lies with the distributors, who seem to either be out ALL guns and ammo. Yes, he did run it as more of a hobby, but then again he has to at least break even every year. I know for a fact how much he made last year, needless to say it wasn't much profit at all. Come down to his location and open up a shop, I'll see how long you last.

If this dealer was having trouble getting new guns from the distributors he should have increased his sale of used guns. He could have filled the entire store with consignment guns at no cost to him. Used guns also have a higher profit margin.

Consignment guns....yes he has had a lot of those lately. Do they sell? No, only if they were semi-auto rifles or nice 1911 handguns. Everything else seemed to sit there until the owner picked it up. Not many people in the area are selling their rifles...it seems to be a safe investment in today's standards.

If you are running a business and a big increase in demand puts you out of business... something was wrong with the business model.

And you think you could save a business as poor as any of those around my area? Only grocery stores and pharmacies are staying open due to the fact that people depend on them. Many businesses have shut down in the past 2 years. Bob wasn't in it for the money, but for the 2A fight. Sure, his prices wasn't close to Wal-Mart's or other gun shops, but it was handy if you needed something. He had to keep the lights on, that's all he wanted and no more.

 

[manfromyard]

Well, it's approaching politics but your statement is not entirely accurate.

Obama wants to ratify the Inter-American Arms Treaty which would require the US to pass laws licensing reloading, even private reloading.

You can play word games to say that nothing is happening "now" if it makes you feel better, but it's not honest.

It's not word games. It's a fact. " Wants to" signifies the desire to do something in the future. Many people "want to" be rich, but that doesn't necessarily make it happen. You may be 100% correct in his intentions, but that doesn't make it true that he already HAS done something.I'm not sure where you see dishonesty in my statement actually. That seems to be a personal slight if I'm reading that right...

 

[ccsniper]

my favorite shop will close soon too. not because he cant keep anything in stock, but because he's getting old. he's in his late 60's early 70's. no other shop in the area are nearly as polite as my gunshop. im on a first name basis with that man, and i will miss going to his shop when he finally decides to close

 

[Tim the student]

Blame who you want, but I don't understand how rising gun sales nationally caused your friend to go out of business. By extension of that same logic, then I apologize for causing your friend to go out of business because I bought some guns, bullets and primers recently. Lets not forget that plenty of shops, dealers at gun shows, and others have been capitalizing on Obama's win by shouting out "BUY NOW, WILL BE BANNED SOON!!!" to drive up prices and sales.

My gun dealer loves the current situation. I bet Colt, Savage, RRA, Noveske, and pretty much every other gun company loves it too. Its the free market at work. I am not happy about not being able to buy some things that aren't on the shelves, but I am happy about these manufacturers not closing their doors and laying people off.

I really do feel tons of empathy for your friend, but I would much rather see "too many" guns being bought than "too few".

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

If you are running a business and a big increase in demand puts you out of business... something was wrong with the business model.

Sig line material!

 

[frankd4]

Waiting

I am old enough to have seen stuff like this befor, I will just wait till people start to get rid of the over priced guns and they will for one reson or another
I am seeing the price of guns at some pawn shops going down along with the supply of money just wait long enough and you will get it for cheap.
I will not buy any guns and ammo at today price I can hold out for years and years.