Hammer/slide springs too strong?

[SleazyRider]

This is a generic question about semi-automatic pistols that eject and load a live round, but whose hammer won't go back far enough to re-cock. The pistol in question happens to be a French Ruby .32 ACP, but I believe my question applies to all recoil operate pistols having a hammer.

Here's what happens: The first round is inserted in the chamber by manually operating the slide, which cocks the hammer and loads the round. The trigger gets pulled and bang, the round fires. The round gets ejected and a new one gets automatically loaded into the chamber. Trigger gets pulled and ... nothing. The hammer did not re-cock itself. Is it possible that the slide did not go back enough because of a stiff hammer spring? The slide spring seems relatively light to me, but I can definitely feel more resistance when the slide engages the hammer as it travels rearward. Am I on the right track here? Should I try lighter springs?

Many thanks for your help here!

 

[AZ_Rebel]

The hammer did not re-cock itself. Is it possible that the slide did not go back enough because of a stiff hammer spring?

If the empty case is ejected it it more likely that the sear is not holding the hammer back when the slide returns to battery. Either a worn/broken sear or the disconnector is not functioning and the hammer follows the slide on its return.

 

[SleazyRider]

If it was a worn or broken sear, why would the hammer stay back when the slide is manually retracted? I'm not familiar with the disconnector. What, exactly, does it do?

Thank you very much for your response!

 

[Magnumite]

"sear or disconnector...".

A worn sear or disconnnector could cause follow because the cycling action is more violent than hand chambering the first round. Second reason is the finger is on the trigger during cycling and this changes the sear and disconnector relationships with other action parts. The jarring of the slide slamming closed and also cause inertial movements in the action which worn parts will not contain.

 

[SleazyRider]

BINGO! That was it! The disconnector wasn't really disconnecting, so trigger pressure was constantly being applied to the sear, thus preventing it to engage and hold back the hammer. The fix appears to be to gently reshape the pawl that causes it to disengage, although I have a bit more research to do on the subject.

Gentlemen, I can't thank you enough!

 

[1911Tuner]

If the slide is moving far enough to strip a fresh round from the magazine, it's moving way yonder farther than it needs to in order to cock the hammer. The hammer isn't holding full cock.

Look for a worn sear or hammer notch...or both.

 

[SleazyRider]

Pictures ...

Here's a few pictures of what I think is the disconnector, viewed from the left side of the pistol. As you can see, my pencil is pointing to a bar---I'll call it the transfer bar, but I really don't know the proper terminology---that goes from the trigger to the disconnector/sear:




When the trigger is pulled, the disconnnector---which I believe is the part that the white arrow is pointing out---gets pushed by means of a little pawl:



Now I'm thinkin' the pawl should slip, thus disconnecting, the tranfer bar from the disconnector, just as it does when I depress the transfer bar:



The transfer bar, I'm assuming, should continue to slide rearward because of the trigger pressure, thus allowing the sear to reset itself on the hammer notch. Problem is, the pawl remains engaged; in other words, it is not slipping past the disconnector as I'm assuming it should. The transfer bar spring is intact and pushing upward; the disconector spring is intact and pushing forward.

Seems like the fix is to change the angle and polish the surface of the pawl so it slips past the disconnector. Am I close to being right on any of this? I truly appreciate your comments!

 

[SleazyRider]

The big picture ...

Guess I should have included a bigger picture:

 

[AZ_Rebel]

The disconnector is missing. It should be in the slot on the frame shown in the pictures. It is a flat metal bar that presses down on the trigger bar when the slide retracts and "disconnects" the trigger bar from the sear.
In the first picture the pencil is pointing at the sear and partially covering the slot in the frame where the disconnector should be.
In the last picture, the slot in the frame is quite visable at the top of the picture to the left of the grip screw hole.
DO NOT FILE OR CUT THE TRIGGER BAR - THATS NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

 

[rcmodel]

Bingo!!

The disconnecter is missing, just as AZ Rebel said.
It is operated by a notch in the underside of the slide rail pushing the trigger bar down when the slide recoils back.
See the YELLOW bar in this picture.

I also believe you might be missing the spring in the trigger that pushes the trigger bar & disconnecter in the up position against the slide.

Finding parts for a Ruby will be a real challenge, as they were made by cottage industry Spanish gun makers nearly 100 years ago.
Even if you were to find a disconnecter & spring, it very likely wouldn't fit your gun, as they were all hand made and hand fitted when the gun was assembled in someones back room.




rc

 

[AZ_Rebel]

As rcmodel said, parts may be a challenge to find. However, this is an easy part to make as it is just a flat piece of metal with angles on the sides to match the slot in the frame. Look at the schematic for the Colt .380 Models on Brownells... #57 is the piece missing. If you cannot make it yourself, any competent gunsmith should be able to file one out for you. rc's illustration pictures it perfectly.

 

[SleazyRider]

Thank you all!

Dang. I'm disappointed that I don't have the missing disconnector, and somewhat embarrassed that I didn't know exactly how the mechanism functioned. This has been an education for me, gentlemen, and you have been patient teachers. I really can't thank you enough!

As for the missing part, yes, I believe I can make one so long as I can come close to matching the correct hardness. I understand most of these pistols were made with poorly-tempered steel, and judging by my experience with this pistol to date, that seems to be an accurate statement.

I remain awed by the collectivized knowledge here at THR, and again, I appreciate your help!

 

[SleazyRider]

Problem solved!

Thanks to the diagram by Rcmodel, and diagnosis and commentary by AZ_Rebel et al, I made a replacement disconnector, rivaling the "craftsmanship" of the Spanish gunsmiths who hand-fitted these parts. Fred Flintstone would have been proud:



Where did I get the metal, you ask? Well, after measuring the depth of the dovetailed groove, I went on a scavenger hunt around the house, settling on a circular saw I borrowed from my neighbor years ago:



What a fabulous learning experience this has been. And what a thrill to fire such a relic, albeit a lowly Spanish Ruby.

Thank you all for your help!

 

[Old Shooter]

Looks like SleazyRider is one of those guys who could be stranded on a desert island with just a book of matches and build a shopping mall.

Nice job, I admire your craftmanship.

 

[SleazyRider]

You're too generous, Old Shooter. Thank you!