Handgun for IPSC

[freezingduck]

So I have put about 5.000rds downrange with a old glock 17.
I have a new gen 4 that arrived yesterday at my dealer.
I think everyone needs to own at least on Glock.
Starting to get more and more hooked on IPSC shooting I think I need to reconsider some of my thinking.
I have only shot for about 4 months, and usually placed in the top 25% at competitions.
The competitions here is usually around 15 Production shooters and only 5 standard shooters, so Im pretty set on production.
The last competitions my biggest problem is stages with a lot of N/S and only a small amount of scoring area at longer ranges.
Here I can see how the SA is good thing.
There is one practice a week at my club for IPSC, the rest of the week there is 25m bullseye and similar practices.
I try to train at least twice a week for live fire using other styles of competition to fine tune accuracy and so on.
I love the fact that the glock has the same trigger pull every time, is cheap, easy to use, have no external safetys, easy to transition between targets, and works every time.
I belive that some of the reason why I place so high at competitions already is that my gun works every time while other guns seems to break down on a stage at almost every competition, nothing big, mostly mag related it seems.
I see that almost all the top European shooters use a CZ, and I have tried one but it was to early in my shooting carrier to really feel the big difference.
I called the norwegian importer of sig, who says that thay don,t have any extractor problems anymore on the X-Five, and that the check every weapon before sale.
He could sell it to me for about the same price as a CZ.
He was on the Norwegian team for almost 10 years in IPSC.
He said that he liked the feel of the X-five better than the CZ, the sig had a better trigger and that even though the muzzle flip might be a bit bigger than the CZ, it was more consistent, which is even more important shooting one handed than the glock and CZ
He also said that the build quality was better on the SIG.
The SIG can also shoot lead cast bullets which the glock cannot without applying for and buying another barrel.


Sadly I cannot shoot the Glock 34 in production, so that leaves me with 3 choices the Glock 17 with a stock trigger, the CZ SP01 Shadow and the SIG X-Five DA/SA.

The CZ is is a pure range gun.
Buying the X-Five, I can keep a normal P226 with a Suppressor and light/laser as a HD gun with a similar feel.
Staying with glock, I dont get a SA trigger after the DA, but I know it works every time. and I can buy a Glock 34 for Bullseye to stay with the same system.

Hoping I can get some good advice on which route to go.
Not looking to save money on buying the cheaper one, but looking to getting the best gun for my use, both bullseye, IPSC and Home defence.
I have no doubt that I will be able to master the DA, with the benefit of SA afterwards.
I plan on casting bullets for all my practice ammo, that means that I have to buy a aftermarket barrel if I choose to shoot glocks.
In norway that will brings the cost of a glock up to at least the same as the SIG/CZ

Thankfully They still produce the P226 X-Five allround tactical in Europe, which is DA/SA.
the picture is the wrong one, but here is the specs.
http://213.162.225.7...&artno=34226054
Its on the production list as well

as a HD gun they also sell a limited edition made for the Norwegian SF called the X5 short, which is a X% with a normal P226 slide, which should make a great HD gun, they can deliver a treaded barrel as well
http://213.162.225.7...&artno=34226955

here are all the primary Sigs they sell, they are all made in Europe of course, so the so called drop in QC at SIG USA is not a concern.
http://213.162.225.7...1012&gidlevel=0


I have to use the allround or allround tactical for production, since they are the only one on the list
I don't think I have a chance to test shoot them before I buy them
Have to order them online, since nobody has the SIG x_five here at least.
I am able to try the Shadow and a normal P226 without a beavertail.
Not sure how much difference it is with an X-Five

If the CZ and Sig would be just as good as each other, I would order two X-fives to have one as a backup for competitions.
If the CZ is a much better choice I would order two custom CZ 75 SP01 shadow.
here is the link for the CZ.
http://www.wingevape...product&id=2926



Aluminium grips
Hammer spring changed to 13lbs
recoil spring changed to 10lbs
competition hammer

By ordering two guns at the same time, I get a better price and if i buy one I have to buy spare mags, which is actually pretty expensive, when I buy two sets, I have enough mags also.

sorry about the messy tread...
Not sure if I should have posted it here or in the competition forum.

 

[hardluk1]

Why you don't stay with the glocks as you allread have become comfortible with the handguns. Stock trigger?? Have that trigger assemble polished and smoothed to make a better trigger lighter stricker spring wil get that trigger to a smooth 5lb. You should be use to the short trigger reset so it is close to a sa pull . It it helps change or modify your front site or change to a fiber optic- red or green HIVIZ helps many time to pick target target up quickly.

Most times it not a firearm that makes or brakes you but your skill level skill level. Anyhow ,that my outlook.

Now if you do change from your glock and like the cz styling then look hard at the Witness elit stock as it will work in production and the witness elit match will work in the limited class And I can till you this pistol is one wicked accurate pistol with 25yard accuracy of 1.5" being realistic and can be bumped 17+1 to 21+1 rounds of 40 cal. Henningshootsguns has a business that sells upgrades for the witness line and theres a site at brian enoss forums to help with info.

 

[mgmorden]

Personally, if I was shooting IPSC with the 5lb trigger pull rule, my choice for Production would absolutely by the CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow. It has stock most of the things that people do to other pistols to make them competition ready. That's good in any venue, but with IPSC's more strict rules regarding modifications that can be done in production it's the clear choice IMHO.

 

[freezingduck]

will the glock hold me back in the long run?
Maybe I am better off staying with Glock and spending 100% of my shooting time on the same system that I trust.
I was just thinking that I didn't want to train for two years, figuring out that I would be much better using another weapon system.

when we shoot ''military'' style bullseye I keep getting comments that I will never be competetive with a glock.
Military style means 9mm or larger.

 

[mgmorden]

You can be plenty competitive with a Glock 17 - I just think that overall if you put the same amount of effort in you'd be ever so slightly better with the CZ (under IPSC rules anyways - USPSA with less restrictive modifications and no trigger weight limit I'd say go with a Glock 34).

Bullseye is a different game - it favors accuracy well above speed.

 

[BCRider]

You're in much the same personal dilema as one of the other members here that has a similar thread running at the moment. Except in your case you don't seem to have had a lot of trigger time on any other guns which you've owned.

Your best bet is to get together with a few shooting buddys with the intent to swap guns over a wide range of styles and types and each of you get to shoot something other than what you are familiar with at the moment. For you that's a great opportunity to try something other than your Glock.

A great option is to set up a cheap and dirty Speed Steel stage where you have 5 or 6 non falling steel targets. From a low ready with each gun you sight and hit all the targets. Misses are just that, you keep going until you get the hits or some max time is reached such as 30 seconds. In the case of DA/SA guns you and the rest start from the hammer down position so the first shot is identical to the Production classes in either IPSC or IDPA. Each of you shoots the stage for 7 passes. The first pass being a "get aquainted" run for the new gun then you get 6 timed passes and toss out the slowest pass. It's worth keeping track of the ammo useage for each pass as well. A gun which you miss with regularly throughout the test is likely going to give you a lot of Charlies and Deltas... or possibly even more Mikes than you want to consider.

If non falling steel targets can't be used then I'd suggest using IPSC targets. Then the hits on anything but the Alpha's can be seen as well. In that case it would be best to use one target for the first "get aquainted" mag and then run through a set of 5 targets for the testing. And I'd go with two shots per target for 5 passes then score and tape for the next guy. The targets in this case would be scored as per IPSC scoring procedure except it's for more than two hits. But it's the same idea. The time would be the total for all 5 passes added up and the penalty additions based on the penalties for each of the 10 shots that didn't hit the Alpha zone.

Obviously to do this well you'll need to have one of the guys show up with a shot timer so the shot strings can be scored.

By running a match like test of this sort you're bringing both speed of handling as well as accuracy into the equation. And if your shooting buddys are anything like mine they would be all over a test of this sort. You and 4 buddys is 5 guns being shot at the targets for 5 mags per gun. So ensure you have a stack of targets and tape and a few boxes of ammo.

We can believe whatever we want in terms of if we think we're better off with a DA/SA or a consistent striker fired gun. Or that one brand is better than another for whatever reason. The key is to actually SHOOT THE DARN THINGS and see which one your body and eyes tell you is best from the results.

 

[twofifty]

Sweet advice there BCrider.

To the OP you ought to carefully read IPSC's rules on what modifications are allowed in Production division....very little. At Level 2 matches and higher expect that your hg will be checked for compliance.