Handi Rifle .30-06 misfires

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Dan Forrester

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About a decade ago my sister purchased this “lightly used” .30-06 Handi Rifle. She tells me it misfires every few rounds but doesn’t remember if it hits off center or if it doesn’t hit the primer hard enough.

From what I’ve read online it is a problem with the transfer bar and can be fixed with new parts. Has anyone done this fix before?

I also had an extra 12ga barrel laying around marked “Pardner-Model SB1”. The barrel fit perfectly! I shouldn't have a problem using a shotgun barrel on a rifle receiver right?

Thanks,

Dan
 

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Is the hammer thumb extension rubbing on the bottom of the scope? That happened to me and I was having light strikes, then I saw when lowering the hammer slowly it was contacting the scope. Took off the thumb extender and problem solved.
 
I have a Rossi single shot that won't reliably fire 7.62x39mm.
 
Is the hammer thumb extension rubbing on the bottom of the scope? That happened to me and I was having light strikes, then I saw when lowering the hammer slowly it was contacting the scope. Took off the thumb extender and problem solved.

Yeah, my thought was the extra mass of the extension + light hammer spring = light strikes.

My solution to the scope clearance problem involves the judicious use of a Dremel tool and rotary grindstone. It's a little hard to see in this photo, but I took about 1mm off the end to leave more space for my thumb:

HandiHammer.jpg

BTW, replacing a Handi rifle hammer spring is a non-trivial task -- I had to do this once when I had a spring actually break after several years use. H&R sent me a new spring but I had to do the install myself using the instructions in JB Wood's shotgun disassembly manual.
 
Shame, that seems like a real good cartridge for the Handi's.

Nice and mild recoil for such a light rifle.

Think it's maybe due to hard military primers?
No, it was about the same with US ammo and even handloads. About 50% ignition rate.

Someone did suggest I try removing the hammer spur. That Rossi is currently stored out of state, though.
 
Is the 30-06 barrel locking up solidly? You should hear a distinct "click" when you close the barrel. Not all barrels line up correctly on all receivers.

I've had that issue fitting barrels to SB1 and SB2 receivers.

The shotgun barrel is fine on that receiver - which is not always the case for a rifle barrel on a shotgun, or Pardner receiver.
 
I did check and neither the hammer nor the hammer extension is hitting the scope in any way.

Yes the barrel locks up solid to the receiver. The barrel is the original that was fit to the receiver at the factory.

I will remove the hammer spur and take it to the range hopefully this weekend. I’ll test both the rifle and shotgun barrels and see what I can find out.

Thanks,

Dan
 
Any arm not igniting a cap directs one to a couple of possible causes.
A defective cartridge or primer. Seems you checked that.
A broken - or otherwise deformed - firing pin. Seems you have eliminated that possibility.
Hammer - or striker - not hitting as expected. Nothing in the way (externally). Mechanics of the firing mechanism (internally) not functioning properly. This possibly requires detail stripping and checking bits and pieces.
Insufficient mainspring strength. If any doubt, replace.

Sounds like most of these examinations have been done. Good luck with the others.
 
Well I fired nine .30-06 rounds this morning and seven 12ga shells. The two shells on the right are un-fired fired for reference.

Everything worked fine. I wonder if my sister just got some bad ammo or something. The firing pin hits look a little shallow possibly. It could be the brand of ammo she was using didn’t have sensitive enough primers.

Thank you for the help everyone!

Dan

C784B8AC-D539-4CDF-AFE7-C971314B82FC.jpeg
 
Pictures are better than no pictures. There appears to be a slight bit of firing pin offset on the shot shells and centerfire cartridges. The further from center, the more energy it takes to ignite the average primer,


HN9vY7Z.jpg


until such point, the primer will no go bangy.

Ng7KD4h.jpg

this is the military small arms primer mix, and as can be seen, at the lower energy levels to the left, sometimes the primer cake will ignite, sometimes not. It is not until the highest energy levels on the right are achieved will the composition always ignite.

h5EcSJO.png

I have found insufficient firing pin protrusion to cause misfires. I reamed these pockets too deep

nwTXKGc.jpg

and they no go bangy in my M70. Indentation looks good, but, no bangy. However, in my M1a, they all went bangy. I have experienced this in a Dumoulin Mauser action, replaced the factory firing pin with an old military pin with more protrusion. The misfires went away.

A weak mainspring causes squibs and misfires. The primer looks well hit, but the bullet lodged in the throat of the revolver. New mainspring fixed that.

SobhuKC.jpg


xXFMOxJ.jpg

I had to use a screwdriver and a block of wood to knock the bullet out of the throat, and back into the case.

F3lwQts.jpg

What I recommend for your rifle, find a new mainspring, and possibly, a longer firing pin. Do clean out the mechanism of all gummed oil, and if Jimmy Hoffa is inside, scrape him out.
 

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An issue with Handi Rifles is headspace on non-rimmed cartridges.

If the barrel was not factory fit (and in some cases, even if it was :what:) there can be a slight gap at the breech face. Or, the breech face isn’t entirely square. Feeler gage to check that out. Also, compare a fired case with one with a light strike. Are the shoulders at exactly the same place? The Handi really loves a “crush fit”.
 
Pictures are better than no pictures. There appears to be a slight bit of firing pin offset on the shot shells and centerfire cartridges. The further from center, the more energy it takes to ignite the average primer,


View attachment 1083671


until such point, the primer will no go bangy.

View attachment 1083665

this is the military small arms primer mix, and as can be seen, at the lower energy levels to the left, sometimes the primer cake will ignite, sometimes not. It is not until the highest energy levels on the right are achieved will the composition always ignite.

View attachment 1083666

I have round insufficient firing pin protrusion to cause misfires. I reamed these pockets too deep

View attachment 1083667

and they no go bangy in my M70. Indentation looks good, but, no bangy. However, in my M1a, they all went bangy. I have experienced this in a Dumoulin Mauser action, replaced the factory firing pin with an old military pin with more protrusion. The misfires went away.

A weak mainspring causes squibs and misfires. The primer looks well hit, but the bullet lodged in the throat of the revolver. New mainspring fixed that.

View attachment 1083668


View attachment 1083669

I had to use a screwdriver and a block of wood to knock the bullet out of the throat, and back into the case.

View attachment 1083670

What I recommend for your rifle, find a new mainspring, and possibly, a longer firing pin. Do clean out the mechanism of all gummed oil, and if Jimmy Hoffa is inside, scrape him out.
A Q from a reloader myself; How did a weak mainspring cause a squib? Was the primer just partially ignited so the powder was unburned?

I grabbed a few random cases from a few different guns, your primer looks like it was struck as good as any of these. (The .45 Colt loads were “Ruger only”, I mark those with the sharpie on the head.)

412949C8-60F3-4022-BDDD-CA10B3C6B5A6.jpeg

I am surprised that it didn’t fire correctly. Maybe it was a bum primer?

Just wondering in case I have a similar…:)

Stay safe.
 
A Q from a reloader myself; How did a weak mainspring cause a squib? Was the primer just partially ignited so the powder was unburned?

It is my recollection that I had several weak rounds before the one that stuck the bullet in the throat.

I was using a lower end load of AA#9, which is a ball powder, and the weather was cold. I think in the 40's. When I installed a new mainspring in this M586, and came back a week later, the temperatures were 50 ish, but positive ignition all around. This is a pistol I purchased from a Bud who said he shot 40,000 rounds in PPC. He used 2.7 grs Bullseye and a 148 LWC and Federal primers. Fed primers are the most sensitive around.

It was either this round, or another, but I remember pulling ignited powder out of the case which had a consistency of gray cotton candy.

I am going to claim that the shooting community thinks it knows all about primers, but really, the shooting community are actually Confident Idiots when it comes to primers and their composition, and their actual performance. It is worth reading the link to see, the more ignorant the idiot, the more confident the idiot. As David Dunning writes:

An ignorant mind is precisely not a spotless, empty vessel, but one that’s filled the clutter of irrelevant or misleading life experiences, theories, facts, intuitions, strategies, algorithms, heuristics, metaphors, and hunches that regrettably have the look and feel of useful and accurate knowledge.

As the humorist Josh Billing once put it, “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble, its what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

In many cases, incompetence does not leave people disoriented, perplexed, or cautious. Instead, the incompetent are often blessed with an inappropriate confidence, buoyed by something that feels to them like knowledge.”

So much of the information about primers is withheld from the public. We don't know the flame temperatures, mass ejected, dwell, or total energy content of primers. We don't know the sensitivity of each primer lot. It is hard to find the all fire and none fire limits of primers. The shooting community has been kept deliberately ignorant on the topic, because industry likes ill informed consumers who make irrational choices.

This is also worth reading:

IT DON’T GO BANG: FIRES, HANGFIRES, MISFIRES AND SHORT ORDER COOKS IN JERSEY
By Mark Humphreville


by @Hummer70

Now why did the bullet lodge in the throat?: I am going to claim that full and complete ignition of the primer compound is necessary for a full and complete ignition of powder. And that some powders, particularly ball powders, require more energy to fully ignite than others. Partial ignition of the primer, partial ignition of the powder, cold soaked ammunition, and I received a squib. That is as far as I am going into the causes. Perhaps some particle physicist can explain the issue down to the sub atomic level and show that weak ignition produces too many strange quarks, and not enough charm quarks.

Tell you what, shoot enough 22lr rimfire ammunition in handguns, in cold weather, such as I have done in Bullseye Competition, and you will see and experience malfunctions due to incomplete powder ignition. These include failures to extract, stove pipes, and if you are lucky, weak ejection. A malfunction leads to alibi's, alibi's reduce scores. It is better to have the pistol function and have the bullet hit the target, than to have a stove pipe or failure to extract.

There are posters here who have sectioned 22lr cases and shown incomplete distribution of priming compound in the rims.
 
It is my recollection that I had several weak rounds before the one that stuck the bullet in the throat.

I was using a lower end load of AA#9, which is a ball powder, and the weather was cold. I think in the 40's. When I installed a new mainspring in this M586, and came back a week later, the temperatures were 50 ish, but positive ignition all around. This is a pistol I purchased from a Bud who said he shot 40,000 rounds in PPC. He used 2.7 grs Bullseye and a 148 LWC and Federal primers. Fed primers are the most sensitive around.

It was either this round, or another, but I remember pulling ignited powder out of the case which had a consistency of gray cotton candy.

I am going to claim that the shooting community thinks it knows all about primers, but really, the shooting community are actually Confident Idiots when it comes to primers and their composition, and their actual performance. It is worth reading the link to see, the more ignorant the idiot, the more confident the idiot. As David Dunning writes:

An ignorant mind is precisely not a spotless, empty vessel, but one that’s filled the clutter of irrelevant or misleading life experiences, theories, facts, intuitions, strategies, algorithms, heuristics, metaphors, and hunches that regrettably have the look and feel of useful and accurate knowledge.

As the humorist Josh Billing once put it, “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble, its what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

In many cases, incompetence does not leave people disoriented, perplexed, or cautious. Instead, the incompetent are often blessed with an inappropriate confidence, buoyed by something that feels to them like knowledge.”

So much of the information about primers is withheld from the public. We don't know the flame temperatures, mass ejected, dwell, or total energy content of primers. We don't know the sensitivity of each primer lot. It is hard to find the all fire and none fire limits of primers. The shooting community has been kept deliberately ignorant on the topic, because industry likes ill informed consumers who make irrational choices.

This is also worth reading:

IT DON’T GO BANG: FIRES, HANGFIRES, MISFIRES AND SHORT ORDER COOKS IN JERSEY
By Mark Humphreville


by @Hummer70

Now why did the bullet lodge in the throat?: I am going to claim that full and complete ignition of the primer compound is necessary for a full and complete ignition of powder. And that some powders, particularly ball powders, require more energy to fully ignite than others. Partial ignition of the primer, partial ignition of the powder, cold soaked ammunition, and I received a squib. That is as far as I am going into the causes. Perhaps some particle physicist can explain the issue down to the sub atomic level and show that weak ignition produces too many strange quarks, and not enough charm quarks.

Tell you what, shoot enough 22lr rimfire ammunition in handguns, in cold weather, such as I have done in Bullseye Competition, and you will see and experience malfunctions due to incomplete powder ignition. These include failures to extract, stove pipes, and if you are lucky, weak ejection. A malfunction leads to alibi's, alibi's reduce scores. It is better to have the pistol function and have the bullet hit the target, than to have a stove pipe or failure to extract.

There are posters here who have sectioned 22lr cases and shown incomplete distribution of priming compound in the rims.
Thanks, I will check out the links. :thumbup:

I, too have had dozens and dozens of rimfire FTF that fire perfectly when rechambered after a 90-180 degree rotation. Rifles, handguns; Revolvers, autos; SA and DA, the whole gamut. I can only assume this is incomplete priming compound in the rim. :)

Thanks again, stay safe.
 
An issue with Handi Rifles is headspace on non-rimmed cartridges.

If the barrel was not factory fit (and in some cases, even if it was :what:) there can be a slight gap at the breech face. Or, the breech face isn’t entirely square. Feeler gage to check that out. Also, compare a fired case with one with a light strike. Are the shoulders at exactly the same place? The Handi really loves a “crush fit”.
I was just thinking this myself, it could be that the headspacing is too deep with certain ammo. I have a .308 and a .223 barrel and the .308 barrel is a good, snug fit, the .223 is wobbly until I put the forend on and torque it down, which makes me think it wasn't factory fit to the frame. Neither have given me misfire or light strike issues since I took of the thumb extender on the hammer.
 
Thanks for the info on primers Slamfire. I didn’t know how complex they were. Like you say it’s a critical component I really never gave much though to.

I didn’t think about gummed up oil in the firing pin channel. This gun has been sitting for a decade or more so that very likely. Looks like parts such as firing pins are fairly easy to find too so that’s good news.

I appreciate everyone’s help diagnosing this rifle!

Thanks,

Dan
 
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