Headspace in old Winchesters vs. old Marlins

[LonesomePigeon]

A brief history. A while ago my Grandpa gave me an antique Winchester 1894 Sporting Rifle .38-55 which I shot with black powder loads and the primers backed out. A while after that I bought a 1956 made Winchester 94 Carbine .32 Win Special which I shot with factory smokeless loads and primers backed out. At that point I bought a Field Gauge and both rifles' actions are able to close on the Field Gauge, indicating out of headspace issues. I was especially disappointed with the .32 WS because the seller, who was also a gunsmith, had specifically told me it was safe to shoot.

I am just curious how common this problem is with old 1894/94's?

Is this a common problem with old Marlin 1893/336's as well?

 

[Steve Milbocker]

My 1893 does it a bit with Federal ammo. Shoots Remington fine. I’ve always thought a backed out primer was a low pressure sign. I’ve read about this a bit on Levergun and most say it’s a nonissue. Also this rifle came from Turnbull and they said it’s good so I’m shooting mine

 

[Steve Milbocker]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ridge-primers-protruding-after-firing.495803/

 

[Coyote3855]

Primers do not back out from my Marlin 1893 in .36-55. Moderate loads with hard cast 255 grain bullets.

Your 1894 .38-55 is a beautiful rifle.

 

[Steve Milbocker]

I just checked my fired Remington cases a little closer. They do back out slightly but not as noticeable as the Federal. I should note these are 30-30

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Thanks for the replies. Steve Milbocker thanks for the link, I read it and found it informative.

 

[Picher]

I understood that a rifle could close on a "Field" gauge without being considered unsafe, but that it must not close on a "NO-GO" gauge. If I were buying a rifle, I may not want it to close on a "Field" gauge if it was intended to be shot a lot and be expected to shoot very well, or expect cases from it to be reloaded repeatedly.

 

[LonesomePigeon]

I thought it was the other way around, if it could close on a No-Go it's not ideal but it might still be safe. If it closes an a Field then it's not safe. I am just confused about the Winchester 94's because soooo many people say it's fine if the primers back out but few seem to be using gauges when making this assessment.

 

[Bfh_auto]

A brief history. A while ago my Grandpa gave me an antique Winchester 1894 Sporting Rifle .38-55 which I shot with black powder loads and the primers backed out. A while after that I bought a 1956 made Winchester 94 Carbine .32 Win Special which I shot with factory smokeless loads and primers backed out. At that point I bought a Field Gauge and both rifles' actions are able to close on the Field Gauge, indicating out of headspace issues. I was especially disappointed with the .32 WS because the seller, who was also a gunsmith, had specifically told me it was safe to shoot.

I am just curious how common this problem is with old 1894/94's?

Is this a common problem with old Marlin 1893/336's as well?

View attachment 982218 View attachment 982219

Is there wear on the locking lugs and bolt?
They may be able to be made safe to shoot with new lugs and or bolt fitted too it.
The originals could be kept for if it was ever sold.

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Bfh_auto I don't know if there's wear. I have an oversize locking bolt, .01 oversize. I have never taken apart a 94, the most complicated thing I've taken apart is a Colt SAA replica. When I have the time I will take apart the .32 WS and see if the oversize locking bolt will fit and go from there.

 

[Walkalong]

Article on Go, No Go, Field Gauges

 

[Laphroaig]

Don't rimmed cartridges theoretically headspace on the rim?

 

[briansmithwins]

Don't rimmed cartridges theoretically headspace on the rim?

Yes, they do. You can see pictures of some examples here: https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/saa...saami-headspace-gauge-set-go-no-go-field.html

BSW

 

[Laphroaig]

I never studied headspace gauges enough to realize some worked off of rim thickness. Thanks for the education.

Primers also back out of my M94 25-35. Loose tolerance so all rim thickness' fit, or just some wear and loosening of the action with age? I did measure some of my brass and WW rims are .003 or .004 thicker than RP.