Heavy profile AR barrel?

[Rittmeister]

I've got two AR15s, both 5.56 chambering. One I bought complete and it came with a heavy-profile barrel (not to be confused with a bull barrel). The other I built, and it has a government profile - A2 I think.

I've had the heavy barrel gun (it's a Rock River) configured a few different ways - low-power scope, red-dot, irons - but have never felt comfortable shooting it offhand. From a rest, it's great, but if I want to plink in the woods at multiple targets I just don't feel I'm very accurate.

The thin-barreled gun on the other hand, is a joy for me to shoot. It's only ever had iron sights and even when it had a mil-spec trigger I shot it faster and more accurately than the RRA. Now that it's got a nicer trigger, it's no contest.

So I'm wondering if there's any real-world reason to keep trying with the heavy gun. I've already changed the handguard for a lighter one, gone to a low-profile gas block instead of the big flip-sight one that came on it, and gave up on the 1-4x scope (1.5 pounds with mount!) in favor of a 5-oz red-dot. There's not much more to do short of changing the barrel itself, and I'm reaching my point of "I've dumped enough cash into this project".

In my mind, I liked having the iron-sighted gun for teaching purposes and for lightweight packing, and the heavier gun for... well, I'm not sure what for. It's the first rifle I ever bought and it was a good deal when I got it, which may have been more motivation than deliberation I'm not into rapid-fire, which is the only time I feel the heavy barrel has a serious advantage over the thinner profile.

I'm considering keeping the lightweight gun as-is, adding a higher-magnification scope and bipod to the RRA for use as a more dedicated "long-range" gun, and perhaps building a tacticool upper with a red-dot or whatever, that could go on either of the lowers. OR, selling the RRA and being done with it... I do love to tinker though.

I realize this was a bit rambling, but I'd be curious what opinions people might have on the situation.

Thanks!

 

[FL-NC]

Personally I like a full heavy profile barrel on an AR. I don't always rapid fire, but when I do, I like precision.

 

[Welding Rod]

My experience with HBars is that they are very accurate, but not much fun to shoot. I have owned quite a few but am down to 1 now. The others have all been replaced with LW or "gov" profile barrels. I enjoy them much more.

From what you describe, I would set it up with either a good scope and relegate it to shooting small things at good distances, or ditch it.

 

[adcoch1]

Yeah if it were me, i would put a good high power scope on it for medium to long range or get rid of it. You may be able to find someone wanting that type of upper and trade you for something you want. Just a thought.

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[rjrivero]

Your heavy barrel rifle will shine in the role it was designed for, and that is as in a DMR/SPR role. Similar to a Mark 12 type role. It's a tool for a different job and can be quite enjoyable if you're open to doing some different work with it.

If you haven't yet, consider taking a precision rifle class with it. We host precision rifle classes twice a year and SPR/DMR rifles are quite popular in them.



http://adaptivedefenseconcepts.com/classes-and-courses/scoped-rifle-elements/

 

[Comrade Mike]

Heavy barrel national match configuration rifles are good for one thing. Match shooting. If you don't shoot matches and aren't practiced in off hand you won't enjoy shooting the rifle. I love mine


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[Tirod]

A lot of heavy barrels are purchased with the belief they are more precise. The other side of the coin has to be considered - they are the same barrel as any other with a bit less machining to profile. Most start as a heavy profile and then are machined to a smaller radius leaving the gas block more pronounced.

It's the rifling that creates the precision, the heavy profile is simply meant to reduce distortion from inclusions in the steel and a lack of normalizing in the manufacturing process. A high quality pencil barrel with great rifling and accurate loads will shoot circles around a poorly made heavy barrel. This may be the actual issue the OP notes.

Again, the heavy profile does NOT make a barrel MORE accurate, it just keeps it from being less accurate as it warms up. It has to be better in the first place, and it takes precision rifling, a good leade, and a muzzle crown to contribute. Length has a lot to do with it, too, as the vibration node of that barrel will significantly contribute or degrade if the muzzle is in a low node or high. Nobody gets accuracy from a barrel with the muzzle whipping up and down as the bullet exits.

The market will respond to what the consumer wants and if they are willing to plunk down another $50 for what is essentially the same barrel with less expense in machining then you better pay attention - that is exactly what some will sell you. A feature that the consumer is presold to think is superior with no understanding of the real complexity of design.

In the earlier days of shooting the M16 for Service Rifle the competitors were already aware that slinging up the pencil barrel could shift the point of aim and it was a critical issue in the top ranks. Moving to a heavier stiffer barrel reduced that bending and that is where the advantage first lay - they weren't shooting free floats then.

Now its still justified because "it doesn't bend when it heats up" but the real factors to accuracy as noted above are far more important than Heavy or Pencil. Also note that the M16 got a thicker barrel out past the FSB largely to reinforce it during bayonet use - an anachronistic modification, but less worse than the M203 cut which has finally been eliminated after all these years. That was an abomination considering that all M16's had to be capable of mounting the old M203 when less than 1 in 100 would get it. Because? Cheaper than reengineering the barrel clamp.

And despite the continuing changes the milspec is still 2MOA which is combat standard since the days of the Garand. Nope, if you really want an accurate barrel, a heavy profile is just an option and ranks pretty far down the list - until you shop for one. Then try to get them to explain the steel alloy, what angle the muzzle crown is, did they air gauge it, what is the leade dimension and chamber profile, etc. I note they market Heavy Barrels and then might list some of the other more important details if they exist. Often, not.

Let the buyer be aware.

 

[Jackal]

Honestly, if you dont like the barrel, just change it. There are a lot of good barrels available in the $100 region.

 

[SSN Vet]

I built a 16" middy with a Delton HB kit...

I think the discount makers were selling HBs because they could be had cheaper than a properly machined Gubm't Profile barrel.

That said, I like it and it's a great shooting gun. Though it is a little front heavy.

I was under the impression that the pencil barrels would show vertical stringing half way through the first mag, as they would heat us so fast. Anyone know if that's accurate?

 

[spazzymcgee]

Your heavy barrel isn't for shooting standing. If you'd like to shoot that AR while standing up, there's no reason to stick with the HBAR. You can get a new upper, or just a new barrel. The Ballistic Advantage Hanson profile barrels are light, but not so light that they overheat within a few shots.

 

[FL-NC]

If we're talking 16" and shorter, the mil went to a heavy profile carbine barrel around 2000, 14.5". We shot them in many positions besides prone. The extra 1.5" adds minimal weight.

 

[LeonCarr]

My next build will be a 20 inch A2 HBAR.

While a 20 inch A2 with the government profile barrel is nice and handles great, the HBAR moves less during the firing sequence, and I find follow up shots during rapid fire, especially from prone, are much faster.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[RecoilRob]

We don't know how long the heavy barrel might be, but if it's a really long one...like 24"...you could easily cut it down and take a bunch of weight out of the front end which would make offhand shooting a lot easier. This might open the door to needing gas system modification to keep it running reliably...but that is easily taken care of.

The shorter it might be at the moment though...reduces the amount you can cut off for weight reduction so I guess that depends on what it is and how short you could make it as to wheter that would be helpful or not.

 

[Jim Watson]

A heavy flute job could take off a pound.
Depending on the original length, shortening it would take off some more.
Mine functioned at 18.5" with the original rifle gas handling.

 

[henschman]

The only AR I'll have a heavy profile barrel on is a High Power service rifle. Everything else gets carried and used in the field, so I want it to be light and to handle well. I even consider gov't profile too heavy... mainly it's where the weight is on those. It's a nonsensical "backwards taper" that gets heavier on the muzzle end.

My pencil barrels will shoot MOA with my hand loads... that is more than accurate enough for a fighting/hunting/Run 'n Gun rifle.

 

[srtolly]

I have two ARs, one is an m4 format and the other has a 24" fluted heavy barrel. That heavy barrel is only used from a bench but it's great fun to shoot 500 yards.

If you want to shoot off hand get another barrel. Anderson makes good barrels at a decent price and it's not that bad to change. Just sell that heavy barrel here, I'm sure someone will want it.

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[Ibmikey]

Heavy barrels take a lot of the fun out of shooting an AR. I have mostly lighter weight configurations in my AR's and particularly like pencil profile cut to 14.5" and pinned with a DD extended flash hider. Decked out the way i want none of my rifles are mil spec.........they have parts that are far and beyond the mil spec .requirements and function accordingly.

 

[grampajack]

There are really only two reasons to have a heavy profile barrel on a semi auto rifle. One is if it's not free floated, in the case of NM M16/M14 types. The heavier profile will be less influenced by pressure put on the handguards. With non FF rifles, the difference between light and heavy barrels can be very dramatic, especially depending on how you hold it, like if you brace really hard or use a bipod. But non FF precision rifles are pretty much museum pieces now. Regarding free floating barrels, you won't see enough difference with .223 to make a heavy barrel worth it just from a rigidity standpoint. So a free floated pencil will shoot pretty much as good as a bull barrel for the first mag. If you get out to distances where that .1ish MOA difference matters with .223, then thermals and wind are going to make it pretty much imperceptible.

The other reason is if you're looking for extreme precision. The heavy barrel will be able to take a higher rate of fire, at least initially, before you see your groups open up. This is why you see bull barrels on pdog guns. You can just sit there and blast away, and you're not likely to be able to shoot pdogs fast enough to heat it up enough to lose accuracy.

On a carbine or SPR setup, you just have to balance maneuverability with performance. A 16'' SOCOM profile is about as heavy as you can get and still be able to shoot well offhand, unless you're unusually large. Of course it also comes down to conditioning. If you were to train with it a lot, pretty soon it wouldn't feel so heavy anymore. Your grip and stance also play a huge role. I would suggest looking up Jerry Miculek and copying his stance.