Help me secure my apartment.

[Thefabulousfink]

I have several guns and live alone in a second story apartment (large complex, not building style). My normal habit is to leave my long guns unloaded and cased, but my pistols are usually loaded and on my person or in a place close by. I have realized that I really should start securing both my weapons and apartment better.

Securing against accidents isn't my big priority because I live alone and if I have anyone over I make sure the guns are put away. I am also the type of person who never picks up a gun w/o checking to see if it is loaded/unloaded, so ND isn't a big risk (although carlessness breeds accidents). My main concern is theft.

My landlord is not the type to allow much modification to the apartment, so I am kind of stuck with what I have. I am on the second floor in a well lit area. The door is metal with a deadbolt lock. The windows and sliding-glass door to the deck all have locks, and climbing up to them would be difficult (but not impossible). There are lots of neighbors so prying the door or climbing onto the deck would be risky w/o being seen. I think this is a pretty good deterrent to theft, how does it sound to you? suggestions?

There still is the outside chance that someone could get in, and I have several firearms that could be found with just a quick search of the place. I had been waiting to get a safe until I moved into an actual house because of the difficulty of moving them and the cost. Is it a better idea to try and hide the guns from criminals, or to lock them in a way as to be more trouble then they are worth? Are there any suggestions on how to do this?

Thanks for your help. I don't think that there is a large risk of break-in, but paranoia is just another word for prepaired.

 

[Preacherman]

I'm afraid I take a fairly uncompromising position on firearms storage, for safety reasons - yours, and the safety of others who may be threatened or injured or killed with your firearms. If you own more than two or three firearms, you should have a safe. No ifs, buts or maybe's about it.

A relatively cheap residential security container (RSC) can be had for under $500 from Wal-Mart, and hold up to 14 long guns. For a little more (typically below $800 delivered) Sam's Club will sell you a 25-long-gun RSC. With care in packing it, you can easily fit in 25 long guns and up to the same number of handguns, as well as spare mags, etc.

Given that the cost of a halfway decent handgun or long gun will be in the same order as a cheap RSC, I don't think that cost is an excuse not to have one. I think it's a moral obligation. If a thief can easily break into your home, and has easy access to your weapons, you've made it easy for him to take them and dispose of them to other criminals, who will in turn use them to threaten other law-abiding citizens. This isn't something I want on my conscience, so I make it as difficult as possible for a casual thief to steal my weapons. If he rips out the wall of my house and bodily removes the safe, or grinds it open, or something like that, at least I have the satisfaction of knowing that I did my best to make his job difficult.

 

[Bwana John]

Get a small "Homak" type safe (~$150, 40 lbs, ~2'X 5'X 1', holds 8-12 long arms) from wally world, and lag bolt it into studs in the wall of a closet or other out of sight place. Bring the safe in inside its cardboard box, so it is not obious what you have.

When you move, spackel up the 4 holes.

This will give some security aganst theft, without heavy safes, or radically modifing your apt.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Preacherman, you are right.

At first I only had a rifle, shotgun, and pistol. Now that my collection has started growing and I started reading THR I realized that responsible gun ownership is more than just safe gun handling.

My initial hesitation to buying a safe was trying to move it up the stairs w/o advertising "HEY! I HAVE GUNS! LOOKIT MY NEW GUNSAFE!" However, Bwana's sugestion of getting a light safe and bolting it to the wall is not bad. Spackle is easy to use.

 

[pest3125]

I'd get a small Homak safe or a small office safe for your handguns - be sure you weigh it down or chain/bolt it to something so it cannot be carried off easily. Ideally, you should be able to lock your long guns in the safe as well, but if you cannot, you could just remove the rifle bolts and lock those up in the safe.
If you have a walk in closet, you might be able to install a locking doorknob yourself and remove it later - it will add another barrier.
If you live close to work, you might want to buy an autodialer - it can call you automatically and play a message or beeps if it gets tripped - just attach whatever sensor you want to it.

 

[Doggieman]

bah

Unless you live in Watts, I think you're ok. I have my few guns strewn all around my place, which is remarkably similar to yours. If someone broke in they could get 'em. Legally I think that if you live alone all you have to do to remain free from negligence (in my state at least) is to have taken reasonable steps to lock the door behind you. I've never heard of someone being prosecuted or sued for having their window smashed, their gun(s) stolen, and those then subsequently used to shoot somebody. IAAL but don't take that as legal advice.

Now, if you have a kid running around, it's a different story altogether. And if you leave your front door wide open and have guns sitting there on the coffee table then you might run into some liability.

But personally if I'd bought a safe I wouldn't have had any money to own any guns at all at this point in my life. Just take reasonable measures (ie hiding them fairly well) and you should be ok.

 

[vynx]

The sentry safes that hold 14 guns (59x22x17?) are listed at $397 at Lowes in California and occasionally go on sale for $300. It would cost $300 to get a good file cabinet or Job site storage box.

Sam's club has a winchester 60" x 30" x 20" safe for $581 (so. cal.) if you pick it up. Its listed at 550 lbs and should keep most casual theives away from your guns.

Piece of mind is worth this much plus if you have any camera's or valuables you can store them saftly too.

 

[vynx]

oops i mean to type 220 lbs as the weight on the winchester safe

 

[vynx]

oops i mean to type 220 lbs as the weight on the winchester safe

 

[Doggieman]

somebody on here told me that the ones you get from Target or Walmart can be pried open from the side in about 20 minutes by a burly guy with a crowbar and a pair of gloves and that realistically you need ones in the $1000-$2500 range to do much good.

 

[odysseus]

Doggieman - Your "lower security" safe like the sentry's you find at Wally World or other places will take more than a crowbar and one guy to pry it open (I am not talking cabinet). However it doesn't take much more than some big tools and and even a sharp axe to make work of it. However that's for someone prepared for it and not typical of your smash and grab types. It's going to make some noise. Also from the sounds of it, you are an easy target some lucky perp may eventually find.

Thefabulousfink - You need to get a safe. An apartment like yours can be entered by maintenance staff and\or management staff and 3rd party contractors even without notice in any kind of "emergency" (plumping? electrical? power? fire? etc.). Even planned work can be done without you there (you work right?). It's too risky in your situation as you have it.

Point is you should think of getting a simple safe and try to put it somewhere out of easy sight. The ones I have seen at those stores seem to be around 200-250 lbs, so with an appliance dolly you could do it yourself if not with a friend in cognito. As mentioned, you might be able to bolt it fine and patch it up as wear and tear. However your landlord may take offense, YMMV and you need to think it through.

btw- I assume also you have timed lights, and maybe even leave a radio just loud enough on when you are not in for awhile.

When you get your house you can step it up with a bigger safe secured even better. This scenario you have has been done many times over by other people. You are in good company.

 

[Hardware]

At the very least get a good lockable metal container as an interim measure. Disable the guns you have, place the components removed from the guns in the container and lock them up. If your guns are stolen at least you can console yourself that they will not be used to hurt anyone.

But get a gun locker as quick as you can!

 

[Doggieman]

whats the point of having guns around if they're all disassembled? All mine are fully loaded and placed in strategic spots around the house to be gotten at within a couple of seconds if need be. Every time I go out to check the mail I'm not going to disassemble all my weapons or lock em up in a safe.

 

[sm]

Apt Security - You Ain't

Notes:

Rule 1: What Guns?

---Never ever advertise you have guns in a Apt Complex. Either by stickers on vehicles, obvious firearm looking gear -logo'd or not gun cases going from Apt to vehicle, obvious shapes...etc.

Talking about shooting or hunting to "strangers" , having firearm related material out and about in your apt., like holters, cleaning kits, ammo...

---Apt complexes have master keys, and these are often passed out to and retained by Apt Contract folks that come in and change filters, exterminators, in the event a Hot Water Heater breaks and tennants are gone - whether yours is the one leaking - or a neighbor's leaks into yoiur place.

Meaning YOU don't know whom has been in your apt, don't know what they "see" , and advertising by mouth or sight...is going to catch up to you. I know this may shock some, these keys are NOT always given back when a assistant mgr leaves, contractors are changed....

Keys have been known to be duplicated, and worse than guns...that cute little thang in Apt #__ has someone waiting on her to come home, or comes in while she sleeps.

--

---Always Always Always keep a spare lock handy, IF, for any reason YOU suspect Misuse of keys, Change that LOCK ! You may hear of items missing from neighbors, some girl "thought" some man in her apt while showering, sleeping, strange folks hanging around with contractors, Pretending to be contract workers, suspicious happenings.

Not to mention an Apt lock will always break on a weekend, more specific a hoilday weekend , and res mgr, landlord is not avail.

Everyone should always have a set of spare locks in the event the lock breaks, set of keys get lost, any reason.

---Battery operated drill is your friend.

With window down and locked, drill a hole in each guide and stick a BIG nail in. Window cannot be raised. Obvious that window is secure other than relying on the window lock. If you need to vent air, Drill two more holes allowing NO more than 4" between window sill and raised window.

.....IF, IF window is akin to a Patio door - see below about preventing window from coming out of tracks......

--- Balconies.
Adjacent Balconies are a big risk. Even above are a risk. Most have sliding glass doors. Broom handle or wooden dowel is NOT security. Easy to lift a sliding door out tracks, even if locked [poor locks are used anyway]. Wooden dowels or broom handles will not prevent lifting out of tracks.

Still got the drill?

CAREFULLY look and measure where glass is in door, allow for glass, and drill a hole into metal that ALSO goes into track, top and bottom, now the sliding door cannot be lifted up , out and off.

One does not need special suction cups as glass installers use, Toliet plungers and the plungers for kitchen /bathroom sinks also suction and make this easier.

--- Front door. Visit a Mom&Pop locksmith. First tell them the make of model of lock you have. Get a LONGER bolt throw to fit that lock. You will have to drll out the wood in frame to accomodate this longer throw.

Next ask for the steel plate that is driven into wood frame To prevent someone from using a "pry-tool" to ease into wood frame, grab that bolt and "tear out". There is special tool the BGs use and can get past a dead bolt.

The steel plate "slows them down" , amatures will give up.

Locks safes, and alarms keeps an honest man honest.

If a BG wants it, he will get it.

A Pro already owns it, just a matter of "picking it up".

Just a few tricks shared in a hurry in regard to Apt security, and applicable to other structures.

Do not advertise, Do not look "inviting". Keep mouth shut about any valuables and Any SECURITY steps.

Think like a thief.

Steve

 

[pete f]

Besides building a vault, none of the safes mentioned will stop someone who has a clue from getting inside in less than two minutes it they do not care. Most thefts are buy druggies, they want sellable merchandise and they want it now.

An alternative to a big safe is stealth. hiding them in plain sight. Getting a big box and glass top and making a stealth gun box into a coffee table. geting an armoire and converting one side to gun storage, add a door and hang some clothes in front of it. Finding a water bed base and sticking guns under there. Take the back off your sofa and build a rack in there and then re hang the fabric with velcro so you can access what you need.

For gun cases to transport the guns in and out, buy and old beat up guitar case. the square fender style ones are pefect. If people know you shoot, get a busted .22 and a POS shottie that will not work and stick in the closet so the Thief has something to steal, but gets nothing but a dummy.

If you have doors you can block get some scraps of 2x4 and lay done to block the doors you want to keep shut. Hang something noisy on the inside of your front door. Someone comes in when you are sleeping, gives a chance to know about it

Get a motion detector light and plug it in in the main room of your place, if you would like add a door bell to the circuit and when ever anyone enters the room, the light goes on and the bell chimes.

 

[BigO01]

One of the Homaks or StackOns that you put together could be gotten into by someone with tools but they're not going to have an easy time of it and are going to make a bunch of noise doing it , which will hopefully alert you neighbors and they will call the cops .

Here's a nice one for $330 at Cabelas .

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&QueryText=Gun+safe&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1

I know a local place that was/is selling the same thing for $279.99
you could give them a call if you like .

Gateway Outfitters
3808 W Clay St
Saint Charles, MO 63301

(636) 916-0242

 

[Hardware]

whats the point of having guns around if they're all disassembled? All mine are fully loaded and placed in strategic spots around the house to be gotten at within a couple of seconds if need be. Every time I go out to check the mail I'm not going to disassemble all my weapons or lock em up in a safe.

Respectfully I'd say this is NOT the way to secure your apartment.

A paranoid man doesn't leave loaded weapons around his residence. He keeps one gun loaded, but he goes to the bathroom with it. Do a search on carry at home. There have been several threads that cover the relevant points better than I can in brief.

 

[Manedwolf]

There are any number of decent wireless alarm systems with door and window sensors perfect for apartments.

 

[TonkinTwentyMil]

In addition to the many good recommendations here about safes, SM's advice re door and window lock upgrades is top-notch wisdom.

To take SM's thoughts a bit further: SECURE YOUR BEDROOM DOOR!

The bedroom is the first place intruders will go to for the expensive (and "fence-able") stuff. Upgrading this door will further complicate their problem. Beyond that, a secured bedroom door will protect you/buy you time at night. Consider these specific steps:

1. Replace that hollow-core BR door with a SOLID-CORE door that LOOKS just like the present one -- right down to the paint-color and door-knob style, but...

2. Add a quality dead-bolt LOCK -- with a hi-security STRIKE-PLATE long-screwed to the door frame. There's no need for your landlord to know about this -- or even to have keys to it -- until you vacate. Then it becomes your "gift" to him. Just have it installed quietly... and secretly... at night. Write it all off to the cost(s) of being a reality-aware gun owner.

 

[Third_Rail]

TonkinTwentyMil, that sounds a lot like the situation I'm in now, only my FIL is a carpenter - he installed a metal door so tough, frame so good, that it'd be easier to go through the wall.

I like the ideas on the front door/noisemakers - I've not yet done this, but I should, as my wife and I are heavy sleepers and the rabbits don't bark at strangers.

 

[Doggieman]

A paranoid man doesn't leave loaded weapons around his residence. He keeps one gun loaded, but he goes to the bathroom with it. Do a search on carry at home. There have been several threads that cover the relevant points better than I can in brief.

eh, I like doin what I like ta do. 'Nuff said.

 

[shooter429]

Apartments are really iffy

Because it is very difficult to control ingress, egress, lighting, landscaping and other aspects of physical security in the average complex and your neighbors (even the ones you are sharing walls with) might not be the trustworthy type, it really is prudent to get solid safes/lockboxes installed and use them at all times.

As it was pointed out earlier, you might have the problem of everybody and their brother having keys to your place. I had a landlord who would give all the handymen, contractors and the neighbors dog (for all I know) keys to my place and refused to change the locks or add anything for safety, nevermind the prior tennents that were still popping by. More than once, I would hear someone in my apartment only to find it was some repairman the landlord called. Good thing I never took the "shoot first" approach or left my guns laying around the apartment.

After that experience, I have been keeping stuff locked up in safes or boxes that are bolted down (with the studs inaccessible etc.) in my safe room. I have everything centralized where I am going to be in an emergency and try to limit any signs that I am armed. And like was said before, you can just keep one gun on ya at all times (The shower will mess up blued finish, however). LOL

Shooter429

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Wow, some great ideas here.

I think my first purchase is going to have to be a bolt-down safe in the $300 dollar range. They seem large enough to hold my small gun collection and I will be able to get it a lot sooner than If I saved up for the $1000+ safes. Unless the BG had spent a lot of time casing my apartment and knew that I had a safe, I think most of the theives that I would get are the "smash and grab" type.

I am also going to replace the deadbolt on the door and put a larger (and deeper) lockplate on the frame. The door itself is metal so it should hold up to most abuse, and the noise would wake me or the neighbors.

The wireless alarm is another great idea. I have met both my upstairs and downstairs neighbors and they are both very nice. They also keep different hours than me; one stays up late (2am) and one wakes up early (4am). They are also very aware and pro-active (one sat outside w/ his girlfriend the last couple nights because there had been a string of car break-ins). The alarm could be enough to wake me, or to rouse the neighbors if I was gone.


Thanks to everyone for all the help. It is alot easier to secure your own home than it is to secure a place that you rent and live in close proximity to others.