Help with 100 year old Heirloom Maintenance

[HPShooter]

Hello, All,

I have had the great privilege of helping an 82 year old friend rediscover and enjoy his Father's Colt Model 1911 .45, and a captured DWM 1916 9mm Luger. They had both been stored for at least 40 years. Fortunately had been put away by Dad in oil soaked socks prior sometime prior to 1970.

After carefully cleaning and oiling (with CLP) these pistols, we took them to the range. Where they both shot like new. The .45 with standard ball, the Luger with Federal 115 standard velocity ball, no high pressure stuff. I also cleaned and oiled the holster and pistol belt, stamped 31Oth Infantry Regiment with crossed rifles in several places. Along with the 5 two tone mags found still loaded with Remington UMC 1917 dated lead ball in two mag pouches and the pistol itself.

The .45 checks out as having been delivered to the Army in April, 1913. The 310th fought in the Meuse Argonne campaign, so the Luger was probably captured there. His Dad, a Company Commander, never spoke of the war.

Both of these pistols show holster wear, but that's it. No rust. Both are studies in the art of precision machining.

Here's my problem. I took the stocks off both of these pistols to clean behind them after the range trip. The stocks on both are very dry now, and there is some grime embedded. Should I clean them with Murphy's Oil Soap, let them dry, then soak them in raw linseed oil?

Or is there a better way? I'd like to get them ready for the next 100 years in his family.

My friend is a Korean War Veteran, too, as was my Father, so this means a lot to him.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

HPShooter

 

[rabid wombat]

Hi HPShooter,

First, thank you. Helping this gentleman is a duty you fulfilled well.

Second, I will not be able to help you with the wood.

Quick question - did you shoot the 1917 ammo in the 1911? If so, there is a cleaning issue. Ammo before 1954 ish can cause big problems if fired and not cleaned properly. If using modern ammo, normal cleaning suffices.

Again, thank you for helping.

Best,
Rabid

 

[HPShooter]

thanks

Hello, Rapid Wombat,

First, thanks for the kind words. It has been a true joy to shoot and work on these pistols, with their extremely brave, verified heritage. By the way, my friends Father was such a leader that there is also a large silver loving cup dated 1919, given to him by the men of his company when they completed the occupation of the Rhineland into early 1919. A truly amazing piece in its own right. Inscribed with a testimonial to his combat leadership in the Argonne.

Most Americans don't know that although our dead in WW I totaled 50,000., the great majority of those were killed in just 5 months in 1918. When the full force of the American Army and Marine Corps were brought to bear on the Kaiser's troops. Watch the 'Lost Battalion" sometime to get a feeling for how bad it was.

Yes, you are quite right to caution about the old corrosive ammo, but we didn't shoot it. It goes with the pistols and accessories back in the box., and eventually to the sons. God willing not for a long time yet. I'll bet every single round would go bang, 'though. Here's why:

This is the second First World War .45 treasure I've stumbled onto through friends. Back in 1983 I got on the subject of pistols with a buddy in Miami, and he said, "Say, I think I've got my grandfather's pistol upstairs." Sure enough, there it was in, where else, the sock drawer......again with that 1917 Rem lead ball. Being young and foolish back then, we oiled it up and went straight to the Trail Glades range. Every single round fired and cycled fine, it shot to the point of aim. We also put a box of modern ball through it, then thoroughly cleaned it with Hoppe's No. 9, no problems.

These early Colts are just astounding. The craftsmanship in the machining is marked. No throat jobs, no fine tuning of any kind.......they just run, even with unjacketed First World War plain old lead bullets.

Again, thanks for the compliment and know that this discovery has put flesh on the bones of family legends for his family.

All the best,

HPShooter

 

[Jim K]

FWIW, I think those WWI bullets are cupro-nickel jacketed, not lead. The U.S. never issued lead bullets for the 1911 .45 pistol, and doing so would have violated the Hague convention, which the U.S. never signed, but agreed to honor.

Jim

 

[rondog]

That's exactly what I would do with those wood stocks, clean them and oil them with linseed oil.

 

[Jim Watson]

Be extremely careful with those brittle old wood stocks.
They are by themselves worth a couple of hundred bucks per set.
The Luger grip is particularly weak right below the cut in the left panel at the safety lever. Chip that and devalue by a hundred dollars or more.

 

[Quentin]

Nice story, HPS, thanks for sharing it! And it was nice to help out your friend shoot then preserve the old warhorses.

Last year my 1913 DWM P08 turned 100 so I took my son-in-law and 8 year old grandson out to shoot it. Lots of fun by all and the old Luger ate up WWB and Federal Champion without a malfunction. My Colt 45ACP is just a baby though, bought new in 1976!

Took the Luger out last month and again it worked fine. (It's not a matching numbers pistol so not too collectable to shoot.)

 

[1KPerDay]

I wouldn't put anything on the wood other than maybe some mineral spirits and BLO. No soap, IMO.

Actually I'd just start with straight BLO and a rag and see what grime comes off.

 

[1KPerDay]

BTW we'd love to see some pics of these great old pistols.

 

[rcmodel]

FWIW, I think those WWI bullets are cupro-nickel jacketed, not lead.

+1
.45 ACP military ammo was never loaded with lead bullets at any point in time.

rc

 

[beag_nut]

You don't want to use raw linseed oil; it will never dry, and stink, besides, for a long time. Purchase "boiled" linseed oil, which will dry, won't smell after a couple weeks, and actually add some protection. Chances are almost certain that is what was used on the originals, anyway. Use no soap, of any kind.
Caution: don't wad up and dispose of any rags used for the linseed oil, UNLESS you have either water-soaked them first, or spread out flat to dry outdoors somewhere. Don't want you to have a fire someplace.

 

[HPShooter]

Thanks!

Hello, All,

Thanks for the advice. I will limit the stock restoration to BLO applied with a soft toothbrush, that ought to do.

I will post pics of the completed project.

One interesting thing - the bullets both with my friends .45 and the other one discovered in 1983 were both definitely lead ball - not jacketed. Both Remington UMC dated 1917 - I distinctly remember this.

My thoughts - whatever the Hague Convention said, America went to war in April 1917 on a crash basis. With a tiny Army and various Constabularies here and there of a maximum of 150,000 men. I don't think elements of the mobilization were too picky about getting enough rifles, pistols, and ammo to the men. I recall reading that some American troops arrived in France with Krags, and the first to actually fight used Lee-Enfields supplied by our British Allies.

Therefore, and again based on these two actual examples - I feel confident that at least some lead ball .45 ammo got bought and issued for purposes of expediency.

66 year old lead ball functioned just fine in a bone stock 1911 in 1983.

You have to wonder how money of these gems are out there in sock drawers
and Granddad's lower back desk drawer. All part of the fun, and more serious business of passing on critical traditions to the young.

When the dirt fell out of the holster when we first cleaned it, I told my 13 year old daughter who was helping me clean, , "see, there's the soil of France on our floor" Then I explained exactly how it got there. It made a big impression

Carry on, All!

 

[rcmodel]

I can assure you they were not lead military bullets in WWII.

All the Browning designed semi-auto pistols of the time were designed to use FMJ-RN bullets.
And that's all that were ever loaded for them, war or no war.

From the .25 ACP, .32ACP, .38 ACP, .38 COLT, and .45ACP.
All used FMJ-RN bullets.

As mentioned earlier by JimK in post #4, what you had were Cupro-Nickel jacketed FMJ-RN GI ammo.

It is easy to mistake for lead, as the color is almost the same.

WWII Cupro-Nickel jacket .45 ACP ammo.

rc

 

[BCRider]

If you mix the BLO with some regular oil paint thinner the oil will both clean and protect the wood. Although I'd suggest you use an old toothbrush and the paint thinner first to flush away the grime. THEN the BLO mixed with a little paint thinner. Apply then rub off the excess with a lint free rag or paper towel. A couple of weeks later once the BLO has cured put on another coat and rub off the excess. You'll know when it's cured because the smell will have changed.

The two coats would be fine. But to really put a nice glow on the wood a third coat after the second has cured would really put the cherry on the sundae. The finish will still be matt or at most it'll have a very slight sheen. But the wood's character will show through more with each coat.

And a hearty HELL YEAH to the care needed with the BLO rags. A buddy of mine thought he was cleaning up and bundled up a bunch in a plastic bag. Fortunately he left the bag OUTSIDE instead of in. The bag burst into fire all by itself later that evening. We were lucky enough to notice the smell and get it put out. The bag was right near the house too. BLO is just fire looking for a place to happen. Be careful to lay out the paper towels or rags so the air can prevent the heat building. Once hard you can just put them in the regular trash. It seems to occur after a couple of days.

 

[Kernel]

Tung Oil IMO is a better alternative to BLO.

 

[rondog]

RC, aren't those WWI-era rounds? Dated 1918? I have some of those and I assumed they're from 1918.

And yeah, I'd actually prefer a 50/50 mix of unscented mineral spirits and 100% pure tung oil on the stocks myself. The mineral spirits will loosen crud and clean, and help the absorption of the oil. Tung oil also won't turn reddish over time like the BLO will.

But be sure it's 100% Tung Oil, not anything called "tung oil finish". The 100% pure tung oil can be tough to find though, look at specialty woodworking shops like Rocklers. Home Depot and Lowes don't have it AFAIK.

 

[1KPerDay]

Make sure you're not allergic to it, also.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I too would love to see pics of these pieces of history.

 

[Kernel]

Brownells sells 100% pure Tung Oil.

 

[BCRider]

Lee Valley, which used to be known by another name in the US, also has both raw tung oil as well as a faster drying "polymerized tung oil". I've used both and the raw tung oil takes up to 5 to 6 weeks to harden. The treated "polymerized" tung oil hardens in a couple of days at most. It'll kick in an afternoon if left in the sun on a hot day.

The raw tung is actually sold by Lee Valley as a salad bowl finish. As long as you don't have nut allergies you can actually eat the stuff. Tastes HORRIBLE though. I tried a little wipe just to see.

 

[bainter1212]

I have used a 1 to 1 mixture of turpentine to BLO to clean wood stocks without changing the finish....the turpentine probably has the same effect as the mineral spirits mentioned above.
Again be careful with BLO soaked rags. Put them out on your driveway for a few days until they are dry, then toss them. Don't put them into the washer or the dryer.

 

[BBBBill]

Lee Valley, which used to be known by another name in the US...

Is Veritas what your thinking of? http://veritastools.com/about.aspx

 

[HighExpert]

Woodcraft also carries pure tung oil. You might also check into teak oil. I have had good results with both. I also find it to helps warm the oil before application. I bring it up to about 120 degrees. It will open the pores on the wood and soak in nicely. Let dry for 24hrs and buff with a soft cloth.