help with S&W

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tdarb

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hey guys, I've been looking all over for help, but nothing seems to match this gun, so I signed up here to see if you guys could help. I'm trying to date it, or get any info really other than it is a .38 revolver.

Here's what I know:
  • My grandfather purchased it around 1950 sometime.
  • SN 708XXX
  • Barrel reads "38 S&W CTG" on the right side, and "SMITH & WESSON" on the left.
  • Where other posts have indicated that the model number stamp should be, it has the number 4 2280 (the space after the four is present on the gun)
  • appears to be 4 inch barrel (no ruler on me, so estimating)

I know you gys must get tired of these questions, bt any help would really be appreciated. Thanks.
 
Model numbers inside the frame cut did not start until several years after 1950.

Also gonna need to ID it fur-sure:

1. Barrel length (from cylinder face to muzzle)
2. Grip shape (round or square butt)
3. Number of shots (5 or 6)
4. Type of sights. (fixed or adjustable)

Tell us that and we will try to I.D. it positively.

rc
 
S&W Military & Police Model (Model 1905, Fourth Change), sometimes called the "pre-Model 10". That gun was made for the British prior to U.S. entry into WWII and was the predecessor of the so-called Victory Model. It would date to around 1940-41. When the numbers went over 999999, S&W added the letter "V" as a prefix, and started over with V1, the famous "Victory Model."

Unless it has been altered, which many were, it is chambered for the .38 Smith & Wesson cartridge. Note that this is the name of the cartridge, not the gun. Right now some ammunition is scarce, but .38 S&W ammunition should be available at most large gun stores, at gun shows, or on the "web". It is not the same as the more common .38 Special, also called the .38 S&W Special.

Within the limitations of the cartridge, and assuming the gun is in good shape, they are excellent revolvers.

Jim
 
rcmodel, thanks for the reply. It is a 6 shot revolver. If it helps, here is a picture (my grandfather swapped in the antler grips).

38.jpg


Jim, Very interesting info there. Thank you very much. It's in good shape mechanically, but has some cosmetic defects where the plating has worn through. Is there a way to restore that, or would that hurt the value of the gun? I don't plan to sell it because of family history, but I would like to keep it in the best shape i can.

As far as i am aware it has always been fired with .38 special rounds. What is the difference in those and the ones you mentioned?
 
Barrel reads "38 S&W CTG" on the right side, and "SMITH & WESSON" on the left.
 
The nickel plating is not factory. The M&P in .38 S&W was made only for the British and none of those guns were plated. (Some were blued, most had a phosphate coating like Parkerizing.)

The .38 S&W is an old cartridge, dating back to the 1870s. The later .38 Special dates from 1899 and is longer, but of smaller diameter. Normally, its length prevents it from chambering in guns made for the .38 S&W.

When those guns were brought back after the war, many were reamed to .38 Special. Loud and long were the "warnings" about guns blowing up or wild inaccuracy, but all that resulted were slightly bulged cases. The actual barrel dimensions were not enough different to cause any accuracy problems. Of course the people who screamed about the "high pressure .38 Special blowing up the guns" were apparently unaware that the M&P was designed for the .38 Special. Do not, however, fire +P or +P+ in that gun, only standard .38 Special or .38 S&W.

Jim
 
I'm a little confused Jim. You said that the special cartridges are smaller diameter, but the guns were reamed to accommodate them. Wouldn't reaming make the diameter of the barrel wider?
 
They were reamed out to take the " longer " 38 Special round. Don't sell the 38 Smith and Wesson cartridge short, it is an old cartridge but it will still get the job done, just as it has been doing for the last hundred years. It might not stop a drugged up crazed Moro pirate, but what the hey, even a Krag had it's problem in doing so.
 
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Yahhhh...


.38 S&W is a shorter, slightly fatter Cartridge than the .38 Special.

I think if I had what was originally a .38 S&W chambering Smith and Wesson 'M&P' Revolver, which had been converted for chambering .38 Special...

I would be tempted to find an able and sympathetic Smith, and see about getting it further converted to .41 Colt, and do my own Loadings.

It'd cost a little, but it'd sure be fun, and, unique to boot.

Long as the Loadings were sensible, I would not expect any troubles.
 
Ron, that's the part i don't understand. the Cylinder on this gun is plenty large enough for a .38 Special cartridge in both length and diameter. What exactly needed to be reamed?

These are probably pretty basic things that I'm just not understanding, but if I never ask i will never know. Thanks for the patience guys.
 
Revolver chambers have shoulders in them so the front of the chamber is bullet diameter, not case diameter. That is done so the bullet doesn't swell up as it leaves the case, then be squeezed down when it enters the barrel, a process that causes higher pressure and inaccuracy. That shoulder also prevents a longer cartridge from fitting into the chamber, even if the cylinder is long enough (it is what prevents a .357 Magnum from fitting into a .38 Special revolver, for example.)

So the .38 S&W chambers had a shoulder at the right point for the shorter cartridge. When the guns were converted to .38 Special, a reamer was run into the chamber to move the shoulder forward so the longer cartridge would fit. But since the .38 Special is also smaller in diameter, those chambers have two "shoulders", one where most of the original .38 S&W shoulder was cut away and one further forward for the .38 Special. As a practical matter, they will work with either cartridge.

Jim
 
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