Historical Basis For Huckleberry Rig and Tombstone Weaponry

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ThomasT said:
Dan (OP) if you will reread that article I sent you by Skeeter Skelton "The Gunmen Of El Paso" you see in that article that they carried guns in a variety of different ways and there were no set rules on how they toted their guns. Here is the article for those who haven't seen it before.

http://www.darkcanyon.net/gunmen_of_el_paso.htm
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It's been quite some time since I read that article.
 
WestKentucky said:
. I can’t wear a belt much anymore as I have some sort of allergic reaction where the belt buckles sit.
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Sounds like you are allergic to nickel. Its a fairly common allergy, usually seen in females. That's because cheap earrings have nickel as a plating and females are more commonly known to wear earrings.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
You *do* realize we've exchanged... probably several thousand emails since then, right ?
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Oh yes I am aware of how many emails you have sent me asking about every gun ever made. You really want me to go in to that here? And I remember what was written and what was said. I remind you of that at least once a week when you ask about the same guns over and over.

Anyway guns were carried in every conceivable fashion they could think of. Most had a gun but not all towns allowed them to be carried. But getting caught doing so was usually a fine. So guns were hidden in every way possible. But I don't think they had thought of Thunderwear yet. At least not the men.:neener:
 
BigBlue 94 said:
I have that edition, I love the wooly chaps the one guy at the bar is wearing. Quite a good read too.
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Yes I love the BWM magazine. Its the only one I subscribe to anymore. I have nearly all the issues going back to 2003 and a few random issues from before that. I have learned a lot of stuff and not just gun related stuff from reading those. I have every issue I ever bought saved back. I won't loan them out. I have had too many books never returned to me to do that anymore.
 
BigBlue 94 said:
Sounds like you are allergic to nickel. Its a fairly common allergy, usually seen in females. That's because cheap earrings have nickel as a plating and females are more commonly known to wear earrings.
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That’s what I thought but I bought a nickel free belt and still have the issue. Allergy tests all came back negative. Seems like maybe a mild allergy but the rash builds over time, and it goes away as slowly as it builds up. Suspenders essentially have been the solution, I just have to not be particular and want the clips in the same spot day after day.
 
WestKentucky said:
That’s what I thought but I bought a nickel free belt and still have the issue. Allergy tests all came back negative. Seems like maybe a mild allergy but the rash builds over time, and it goes away as slowly as it builds up. Suspenders essentially have been the solution, I just have to not be particular and want the clips in the same spot day after day.
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Have you tried brass or stainless?
 
the "huckleberry" rig looks novel, but expensive and I wouldn't think it overly popular. Landing on that rig from horseback would be less than a good time.

GeoDudeFlorida said:
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From most of the tin-plate photos I've seen, which admittedly isn't a whole lot, it seems the 1880's Buscadero holster was worn as a cross-draw, when worn at all. Commodore Owens' famous picture with the Springfield rifle and Colt's revolver shows the grip of the Colt in a cross-draw. That kind of makes sense if you're not a cow poke. On horseback, in a proper fit saddle for cantering, with the stirrups a little high so the knees bend into the cant, the butt of the revolver lifts a little, maybe even a lot to cross the rider's lap, putting the butt forward. Reaching down to grab a revolver grip is slower than grabbing it on the up-stroke. That's why I like a high-belt holster that puts the grip at my elbow or a little below. I can't find mention of whether Commodore Perry rode in an English-style or western-style saddle but I'm going to guess since he wasn't herding or wrangling cattle, it may have been a hornless saddle, maybe even an English-style saddle, with a higher lift to the knee. If you know how to mount one, they're pretty comfortable for a long ride. For those who don't' know how to sit one, that horn on a western-style saddle isn't for grabbing onto, it's for the lariat to secure a roped animal. Otherwise, you might find yourself getting snatched right off your horse onto the hard, hard ground, facing an angry critter. o_O
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I can confirm that the revolver can become more vertical in a cross draw rig when riding.

I prefer cross draw for riding, generally. Cross draw is slower when standing, but I think it's faster and more natural while sitting/mounted.
Long barrels are better from the cross draw, IMO.

Cross draw has benefits for working cattle as well. While most everybody puts their pistols away for branding day, if out on the plains you need to rope/brand/doctor a critter, having gear on the opposite side of the roping arm is a good idea.

as far as riding, I ride my saddles a little short in the leathers so I can get my heels down further. My knees aren't bent much, usually. Very comfortable for long hours in the saddle.

Example:
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BW5CT_faVLN8cve--yIvJoK0X8cgWO0mZjSw1Hz37zhiqDTAt3JXkZcy1cbkiWghT2FnDhQ=w1544-h750-no?authuser=0.jpg
 
I did a little googling after reading the OP. I didn't find a thing saying there was such a rig actually used but I found nothing to prove there was no such thing either. If there actually was it seems there were few enough that they didn't make the annals of history. I have to say say that it looked good in the movie and Val Kilmer played his part to the hilt. I consider it his best role and went a long way toward making the movie the success it was although Johanna Going in Kevin Costner's "Wyatt Earp" was a better Josephine Marcus than Dana Delany
 
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Photos of the historic Dr. John H. Holliday show a small statured, lean man, who was in the advanced stages of tuberculosis at the time he was in Tombstone, Arizona with the Earp brothers. A two-gun rig like that in the movie would be a heavy burden for a sick man to wear. I expect that in addition to a knife, he probably carried a pocket revolver of some kind most of the time. Like everyone else, definite proof one way or the other would be fascinating.
 
Fact is, we don't even know what kind of guns
the Earps carried or how they carried them.
We can only surmise.

We do know from some sales figures that
.32 and .38 mid sized and smaller pocket
revolvers were by far the biggest sellers.

When it comes to a movie like "Tombstone"
we can only guess that it could have been
as portrayed.
 
Rexster said:
Cross-draw is increasingly starting to interest me, recently, with a right wrist and right shoulder that are not as freely-articulating as they used to be.
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I got my shoulder problem repaired and have full movement back but I was doing the cross draw rig thing back in the dark ages when I was young feller. I spent a lot of time hunting atifacts, also know as arrowheads and pottery, in the sandhills to the south and west of the caprock in southeastern NM. I combined that with jackrabbit hunting. I would walk and hunt an area and then get into my vehicle and drive to another spot. I never had to touch my holster as it just hung down beside the seat. Now the state and federal governments have made artifact hunting illegal on their lands in their perverted wisdom. It's better to let a piece of rock or clay that's been worked into something useful lie where no one will ever see it than let it be put on display where people can see how their ancestors used what was available to make their lives easier I suppose. I still go boondocking and use a crossdraw holster while doing so. I just leave any artifacts where I find them. Jackrabbits still aren't safe though.
 
Or maybe they they just want to stop hordes of yahoos tromping around, littering and messing up the area to find artifacts they can sell on flea-bay.
Some people I am sure respect these areas but a hell of a lot don't.
 
UncleEd said:
Fact is, we don't even know what kind of guns
the Earps carried or how they carried them.
We can only surmise.

We do know from some sales figures that
.32 and .38 mid sized and smaller pocket
revolvers were by far the biggest sellers.

When it comes to a movie like "Tombstone"
we can only guess that it could have been
as portrayed.
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There’s a collection of old lawman guns dating from the foundation of the town through something mid 20th century in the old Tombstone Courthouse that is today a museum. A gun that is supposed to have some provenance as having belonged to Wyatt Earp is in that collection: a fairly standard Colt SAA in .45 Colt. I don’t recall the barrel length, but my impression is that it was at least 7”
 
sixgunner455 said:
There’s a collection of old lawman guns dating from the foundation of the town through something mid 20th century in the old Tombstone Courthouse that is today a museum. A gun that is supposed to have some provenance as having belonged to Wyatt Earp is in that collection: a fairly standard Colt SAA in .45 Colt. I don’t recall the barrel length, but my impression is that it was at least 7”
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The 7.5-inch barreled Colt SAA was very popular, I believe. It could deliver a
better punch since the black powder of the day worked best with longer barrels.

With the more efficient smokeless powders, the need for the longer barrels
in both pistols and rifles began to ebb. And then Hollywood took over
with a image of the "cowboy" and his weaponry.

If you want to see lots of 7.5-inch Colts in movies, look to the ones
used to portray the Civil War era such as "Horse Soldiers" etc. Those
"Remingtons" are actually Colts with the ejector rods removed and
a rectangular barrel brace added.
 
Very glad to see this thread. I've been think about trying crossdraw. Strong side carry often seems to be in the way while "doing sumpin": in and out of a pick up, on and off a tractor But crossdraw will be in the way running a chainsaw, carrying a bail of hay or anything with arms full. Might just add a crossdraw holster with the strong side and just put the gun where it works the best for a given activity. Gonna look like I lost a gun...or just can't make up my mind. LOL. Probably why so few in the old west actually wore a gun.
 
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