Suggestion: purchase some .454 or .457 caliber round balls for blackpowder. Add some lube to it and use the Titegroup to load them and enjoy the gallery or small varmit loads. Under powered for a Ruger: yes, but it should barely have any recoil and your brass should last you a while.
hodgdon titegroup
- Thread starter bigwoods
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Of course we don't know if it was a double charge, but wow, that's bad news.
Tietgroup is touted as not being position sensitive by Hodgdon, and it does seem to burn well regardless of position, but as far as velocity lost when against the bullet instead of against the primer it is about average in my testing. Nothing special.
Too many better choices for that application IMHO.
Mostly Lead
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With respect to Bluetopper, I must point out that another internet forum would not be considered a primary source/documentation.
Second, in post #9 of the link you provided, John Ross mentions that "I was not present when this happened."
Then, in post #15 when asked about the bullet he says "It didn't occur to me to ask if the bullet got out the muzzle or not."
And in post #17 he says "And yes, I think a double charge is the LIKELIEST explanation for this event, but I am not willing to say it is the ONLY explanation."
I'm not seeing anything that concerns me about Titegroup EXCEPT to be mindful of your loading processes. I've burned a few pounds and will probably burn a few more one day. It does create some warm hardware though...
bluetopper
Member
No, I have no evidence on video of the rounds that blew up getting loaded on the press or the actual kabooms themselves on video. Take the link I offered for what it is.
I thought it might be good conversation here on this forum.
I thought it might be good conversation here on this forum.
+1 Count me as one -- particularly with mid-range 45 Colt Loads out of my RugersWalkalong said:
(same load for an older 3-screw 7½", my newer 5", and the latest (New)Vaquero. *
Of course I'm a single-stage press kinda guy, and run the loading block of filled cases
at an angle under a strong light looking for any variation of powder height before ever
seating anything
* So when I said "mid-range," I meant mid-range
gonoles_1980
Member
Why is this a mistake? I load my 38spl with it, and use it to make light loads for 44spl for my wife. Seems pretty versatile. I've loaded 9mm with it, but since I mistakenly bought TiteWad, I am using that for the 9mm with good results.
Mad Chemist
Member
Here are some alternatives for magnum class powders if you can't find win296/H110:
Hodgdon Lil' Gun
VV N110
VV N105
Alliant 2400
Allliant 300-MP
AA #9
Ramshot Enforcer
IMR 4227
deadeye dick
Member
Just loaded some 9MM 125 gr, lead with titegroup I like it. 3.8 grs. COAL 1.135
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Lots of 2nd and 3rd hand BS too! If folks are so worried about double charges, they ought to be looking in every case before they seat the bullet anyway.
Titegroup is fine for mild to moderate loads, if that is what you want. Hodgdon has 240-260gr data pushing them around 1300fps and still well under 40,000CUP. Should be no problem pushing the 300gr to the same velocity and staying well within the 65,000psi operating pressures of the .454. Although I must say it might be a waste of an expensive jacketed bullet.
Folks advocating H110 should understand the difference between near max .454 loads with H110 versus anything using Titegroup.
Ya think???
I prefer lower nitro content bulkier flake powders for that type of application. Just my preference, and why I posted that I think there are better powders for the application.
With all due respect to the Titegroup fans of course.
With all due respect to the Titegroup fans of course.
Mad Chemist
Member
I have to call BS on the bolded statement above. If you look more closely at the published data here:http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
You will see that the loads for all weights of bullets show substantial increases in pressure along their load range from min to max. They display this large increase in P while yielding a relatively small increase in velocity (a 29.4-31.7% increase in P across all loads for a corresponding increase of 7.5-8.7% in V).
Hodgdon's .454 data is using CUP as the measure for P. Max P for a .454casul is 55kCUP. I seriously doubt that you could work up to 1300fps with a 300gr XTP and not either exceed or come close to exceeding max P. Remember, pressure increases are not linear, especially not at the upper margins.
Here's another useful link for the OP that shows some realistic velocitiy expectations from the .454 with the faster powders. Titegroup is not listed but Bullseye and HP38/231 are on the list.
http://www.freedomarms.com/loading.html
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Oh really? Well half the bolded statement is fact taken from Hodgdon. 
Look at the data you posted in its entirety, not just what you think supports your opinion. Unique and Titegroup usually yield similar velocities at similar pressures. Unique pushes the 300gr to near 1300fps at only 38,600CUP. Even Bullseye gets the damned thing over 1000fps with only 33,000CUP.
FA260JFP UNIQUE 12.0 1220 33,600 15.0 1452 46,600
FA300JFP UNIQUE 10.0 1049 30,600 14.0 1275 38,600
Here's another from Lyman (43,000cup). That's a significantly heavier bullet nearing 1200fps at only 43,000CUP.
325 Cast #452651 Alliant Unique 12.6 1181
Even Hodgdon's .45Colt data gets a 300gr to over 1000fps at 28,500CUP. You don't think one can gain another 200-300fps with double the pressure?
Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.650" 7.5 851 20,400 CUP 9.0 1,004 28,500 CUP
Speer's reduced .454 loads get the 270gr RCBS/SAA bullet over 1100fps.
270 Speer SAA Hodgdon Titegroup 9.0 1135
So there's a good reason why I posted what I did. I didn't pull that from my posterior orifice and no, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Look at the data you posted in its entirety, not just what you think supports your opinion. Unique and Titegroup usually yield similar velocities at similar pressures. Unique pushes the 300gr to near 1300fps at only 38,600CUP. Even Bullseye gets the damned thing over 1000fps with only 33,000CUP.
FA260JFP UNIQUE 12.0 1220 33,600 15.0 1452 46,600
FA300JFP UNIQUE 10.0 1049 30,600 14.0 1275 38,600
Here's another from Lyman (43,000cup). That's a significantly heavier bullet nearing 1200fps at only 43,000CUP.
325 Cast #452651 Alliant Unique 12.6 1181
Even Hodgdon's .45Colt data gets a 300gr to over 1000fps at 28,500CUP. You don't think one can gain another 200-300fps with double the pressure?
Hodgdon Titegroup .451" 1.650" 7.5 851 20,400 CUP 9.0 1,004 28,500 CUP
Speer's reduced .454 loads get the 270gr RCBS/SAA bullet over 1100fps.
270 Speer SAA Hodgdon Titegroup 9.0 1135
So there's a good reason why I posted what I did. I didn't pull that from my posterior orifice and no, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Mad Chemist
Member
I think there is a very good reason that freedom arms and others list max loads well below the max pressure for the load when using faster powders.
If anyone in this thread has quickload, I would be interested to see if a 300gr XTP can be "theoretically" pushed to 1300fps with Titegroup without exceeding max P. I suspect that it cannot.
With regards to Unique, it's quite a bit slower than Titegroup and it's much more forgiving with respect to pressure. Bullseye and HP38 are much closer comparisons with Titegroup. That's why I linked the Freedom Arms data.
If anyone in this thread has quickload, I would be interested to see if a 300gr XTP can be "theoretically" pushed to 1300fps with Titegroup without exceeding max P. I suspect that it cannot.
With regards to Unique, it's quite a bit slower than Titegroup and it's much more forgiving with respect to pressure. Bullseye and HP38 are much closer comparisons with Titegroup. That's why I linked the Freedom Arms data.
Mad Chemist
Member
Thanks MEHavey.
Could you run it for .454 please?
Could you run it for .454 please?
Mad Chemist
Member
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I don't believe it will run that high but doesn't that kinda confirm what I posted???
Buck13
Member
Yep, that's been the most consistently available powder at my LGS.
Another possibility which I've been able to get fairly easily is Longshot. Closest caliber to .454 that I've used it in is .43 Magnum, and I like the results pretty well. Charge weights are considerably less than 4227, so it's economical, but still bulky enough to be less easy to double-charge. Not quite the velocity of the slowest powders, but not bad.
Hodgdon doesn't have a load for it in .454 with 300 gr bullet, but they do have one for .45 Colt (Ruger only).
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