Hollow Point .308 Match ammo for hunting?

[mini14gb]

I have purchased a Savage Precision Carbine in .308. I took it out and shot it with 2 brands of hollow point match ammo and soft point hunting ammo.

The Brands in question are Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr hollow point, Prvi Partisian 168gr match hollow point and Federal 165gr GameKing Vital-Shok.

Wouldn't you know it both of the match grade ammunition shot a good bit better than the GameKings. The Federal Match Ammo was stellar and shot 3/4 to 1/2 MOA groups the Prvi was not far behind averaging 3/4 MOA and the GameKings were about 1.5 MOA all acceptable for hunting purposes.

The question is have any of you hunted with Hollow Point ammo for deer or elk? If so what were your results? I've only used softpoints but these match grade ammo shots so well I want to use them for hunting. Keep in mind I hunt long range Mule Deer in Eastern Montana every year and sometimes have to take 300+ yard shots so every bit of EXTRA accuracy helps.

PLEASE DON'T TRY TO SELL ME ON A NEW CALIBER ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!! I'M NOT GOING MAGNUM I'VE BEEN USING STANDARD CALIBERS FOR YEARS WITH GOOD SUCCESS!!

 

[Maverick223]

No need to change caliber/cartridge...just your requirements...specifically wanting to use a HP. I have had good success and accuracy out of Hornady A-Max projectiles (though I've not used it on elk), in several calibers, but specifically the .308cal 178gr. (in a .30-06Spd.) and .308cal. 208gr. (in a .300WM) variety. FWIW I'd recommend the former for your cartridge.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

For deer you can. It's better to use a proper hunting load, but BTHP can work.
For elk, you need to consider a better bullet that has better weight retention. Bonded bullets come to mind. The best thing to do would be to handload some Berger VLD Hunting bullets in 175gr. Short of that, I would suggest looking into various bonded hunting loads for elk. .308 is more than sufficient to drop an elk if you have the right bullet.

Keep in mind that when it comes to hunting, you can't expect one bullet to be a jack of all trades. 165gr loads tend to be the most inclusive for all-around utility. However, you should be tailoring your load to meet your needs. Things to take into account are distance (short vs long vs exreme long distance), the size of the animal (do they tend to be larger or smaller in your area), are there any predators in the area I need to be aware of (bears, cougars, Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog) and may have to shoot, what twist rate does my gun have, etc.

 

[USSR]

I have had good success and accuracy out of Hornady A-Max projectiles (though I've not used it on elk), in several calibers, but specifically the .308cal 178gr. (in a .30-06Spd.)...

+1. A hollowpoint match bullet like the Sierra MatchKing is not a good hunting bullet. The Hornady A-Max is the only match bullet that I recommend on game.

Don

 

[longshot7.62x51]

++1 form above
I use berger 168 HPBT VLD for huntin elk and deer, this is because the copper jacket is thiner that most Match target ammo and come apart inside the animal.

But i would stay away from MatchKing bullets for hunting the jacket is to thick and does not come apart after impact neatly as well. I have never use A-Max bullets but i assume that they are of similer makeup as the berger

 

[Al Thompson]

Witnessed Match Kings being used to cull deer. Very poor results.

FWIW, I've had good results in the field and on the range with Ballistic Tips.

 

[Craigman]

Barnes has an .308 TSX bullet 168gn that has a sticker on the box that says "match grade"

I have some but havent tried them yet.

Those would work on elk and deer if they shoot to your standards.

 

[MtnCreek]

IME, a SMK is not dependable for deer size game. At high velocities, the bullets seem to fragment and cause a lot of damage and at longer ranges they can act more like a FMJ. You mentioned you're shooting these in a carbine, so high velocity is not going to be your strongest point.
For deer in a .308 a Nosler BT works great. I've used 125gr to 180gr with the 160gr being my fav. For larger game, Hornady makes a 165gr AccuBond. It shoots great and stays together.

 

[Art Eatman]

The odds are far better for a clean kill with hunting bullets, compared to match bullets. Anecdotal stories of good luck with match bullets don't change the reality.

It's very common that some rifles don't work well with some hunting loads. The obvious answer is to try other brands or styles. In general, I've never seen any practical difference between hollow-points and soft-points. Any good hit and Bambi quits, either way.

 

[DIM]

Get some M118LR, can't go wrong with it ;-)

"7.62MM M118 LR cartridge utilizing our special 175gr BTHP bullet and match brass. This round has extremely uniform muzzle velocity with excellent standard deviation and ballistic coefficient ( .490 BC ). This cartridge is designed specifically to ensure and obtain unsurpassed shooting accuracy and performance at distances of 1000 yds and beyond.This is mission-designated applications ammunition for Military and Law Enforcement, elite special ops groups both in the United States and abroad. "

 

[interlock]

i use this to illustrate this very popular question. i agree, use hunting bullets for hunting... especially big animals like big deer and elk

 

[jmr40]

Many of the most accurate target bullets have what looks like a hollow point. It is just a result of the manufacturing process and the bullet is NOT designed to expand. Make sure it is an expanding bullet for hunting.

 

[mini14gb]

MtnCreek,
It is a "carbine" @ 20 inches being a heavy barrel so its not a 16 carbine.

 

[osprey176]

If you bought the rifle to hunt,forget match ammo,and find a good hunting load that it likes.Better yet,take up handloading.Honestly,what is wrong with 1 1/2 inch groups for a deer and elk rifle? I use a .338 for elk that shoots 1 1/2 inch groups,out to 400 yards.Elk are pretty big targets.Deer aren't all that small either.I practice shooting steel gongs the approximate size of the vital zone of my quarry from field positions with improvised rests.Field accuracy is much more important than bench groups for a hunting rifle,IMHO.

 

[MtnCreek]

.338 for elk that shoots 1 1/2 inch groups,out to 400

Sub 0.4 MOA .338! You want to sell that rifle?

 

[mini14gb]

Osprey,
I clearly stated that 1.5 inch group was acceptable so I don't know why you asked me the queastion.
However I will always try to take the most accuracy I can to the field.

 

[Grumulkin]

Yea, clearly, if you put a match bullet through the heart or lungs the animal won't die.

I've used Berger VLDs, i.e., match bullets and they worked very well on deer and pronghorn.

Also, isn't it strange that for the biggest and most dangerous animals hunted in the world, solids are used that are designed not to expand. So, a solid will put an elephant down but there is something physiologically different about a deer so they won't work? Are you serious?

Post all the photos about beautiful mushroomed bullets and those that are in fragments and my only question will be, did the animal die?

 

[Art Eatman]

Grumulkin, solids are used on dangerous game because of the thicker hide, heavier bones and more travel distance from the skin to the vitals. Penetration is the "name of the game" on buffalo and elephant. And, last, a bullet of nearly a half-inch diameter makes a pretty big hole for bleed-out if such bleed-out helps matters.

There are numerous "after action" reports of expanding bullets having expanded and stopped before reaching the vitals. That can be a one-time event...

 

[Maverick223]

Also, isn't it strange that for the biggest and most dangerous animals hunted in the world, solids are used that are designed not to expand. So, a solid will put an elephant down but there is something physiologically different about a deer so they won't work? Are you serious?

Are you seriously drawing a parallel between deer and elephant hunting? The requirements are as different as the construction of the species. If one were to use a reliable expanding type bullet on elephant it would require a howitzer (not exaggerating) in order to guarantee enough momentum and sectional density to penetrate to the vitals. The only practical bullet construction for such a large and heavily "armored" quarry is a good, heavy solid.

On the other hand, for deer you want to deposit as much energy as practicable in the animal...particularly considering that the vitals area is much smaller and the range averages a greater distance. This requires an expanding round, which not only transmits most of the energy, it also creates greater tissue cavitation (which maximizes the damage to surrounding tissue, thus making an "iffy" shot adequate) and creates larger permanent wounds (which promotes blood loss, which can make a poor shot, acceptable).

In short, the elephant can be greater than 100 times as large/massive as the average deer...one doesn't use a rifle that is 100 times the power (no matter how it is calculated)...or even 10x the power. To compensate for this, proper bullet placement is extremely important...as is bullet construction.

 

[MachIVshooter]

As Art and Maverick said, with an elephant, you're dealing with a 5 ton animal that is 6 feet wide with 2" think skin; expanding bullets do not have the weight and energy to get deep enough from a shoulder fired weapon, save perhaps a .50 BMG.

Also remember that the ranges are close and the hunter is backed up by a PH guide. These huge animals often take several bullets before Succumbing.

If you were using a large bore rifle with non expanding bullets on deer and elk, it'd probably work fine. But the extreme majority of these animals are taken with .24 to .30 cal rounds. They need the expansion to kill humanely.

 

[interlock]

it is really important, in my view, that the bullet retains it's integrity and holds together well enough to perform a full expansion and full penetration through the animal. there is quite a difference between a solid big game bullet and match bullet. the solid is designed not to expand and the match bullet is not designed to expand - but it is not designed for use on game. Therefore it will not expand reliably, may well fragment, may not reach the vitals. Using the correct bullet on game really is important in my books. we also have to look at the optimum performance envelope of each particular bullet. ie the speed of the delivery and the intended target. a sierra game king is an excellant bullet... it is designed for long range shots so expands pretty quickly. but when hammered out at really high velocity and into a close range game animal it is more likely to fragment than a bonded bullet like a scirroco. Similarly a Nosler ballistic tip (hunting) is a fast expanding bullet. i would say ideal for deer at 2800 fps in 7mm but if shot at 3400 from one of the mega 7mm rounds it will not perform as well. when i read of hunters using varminting bullets on deer it makes me quite cross. they are designed for super fast expansion in a small body so they might never get through the rib cage. the match bullets simply don't perform on game consistantly


so after all of that prevarication i would suggest that considering the OP's delivery system of .308 win the federal round loaded with the 165 gameking would be good, maybe better for bigger game like the elk the 165 federal bonded tip. would be good. if it was me i would choose the bonded tip bullet, then i would only have to zero with that.

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