Home Brew Firearms and Legality Questions

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MagnumDweeb

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I was reading the post about flamethrowers being legal, http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=425245, but that was not what got my attention. Rather it was the bit about home brew firearms being legal. The comment about one being able to build full-auto guns made me nervous because as I understood it the NFA regulated the manufacture of fully-automatic firearms meaning one could not make one without first getting the okay from the feds. But as it stands, homebrews firearms that are not full auto are regulated by states, I'm not entirely sure though. One commentator was kind enough to mention the NFA bit and that folks should check their Federal and state laws.

If it's for your own personal use then if your state allows then it may be okay, again don't quote me here, just from what I have picked up.

I'm a big time gearhead and fell in love with doing to AKM kits, and one VZ-58 kit and am doing a CETME kit, granted none of them are finished because I still have to bend and heat treat the receivers so I'm waiting on a couple of official and stamped letters from the powers that be, before I do them in semi-auto only with necessary compliance.

There are more I'll tackle as my workshop shifts from Uncle's quaint single room (add on to the garage) ton press, drill press, and series of vices, someday in the future hopefully.

One day though I'd like to tackle home brews of actual firearms like breach loaders with hardened and heat treated barrels, receivers, and other necessary actions. Maybe the occassional cap-and-ball revovler rifle. Really just old classics, for the sake of the art of gunsmithing as well... an art. Some folks have clay pots, some paint pictures, but I'd love to build on my love of working on motorcycles in all things metal mastering and such (grunts like Tim Allen).

Does anyone know of some big no-no's other than than the full-auto thing. Hey twenty years from now it'd be fun to tackle a Gatling if it's legal. I just want, like near all firearm owners, to abide by the law.
 
Just two pop to mind, you can complete no more than one (1) per year. They cannot be built with intent to sell (but they can be sold)
 
The comment about one being able to build full-auto guns made me nervous because as I understood it the NFA regulated the manufacture of fully-automatic firearms meaning one could not make one without first getting the okay from the feds.
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The article was incorrect. You are correct. You can not build an unregulated machine gun at home.

Just two pop to mind, you can complete no more than one (1) per year. They cannot be built with intent to sell (but they can be sold)
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As far as I know, you can build as many as you want in a year, so long as it doesn't hit a level that would constitute intent to sell. I may be wrong, but you're the one claiming to know the law, so please give us a cite.
 
When i read the ATF's section on this, as long as you are out of being a "manufacturer" then you can make as many as you want. And as long as they meet federal and state restrictions. Being a manufacturere basically means if you are going to sell um, you gotta pay (for the liscense) and a few other things i can't remember.

I too have heard that in TESTING a new gun design, that you are allowed to have it full autop, but when testing is done, bye bye to happy switch. This does not make sense to me though....
 
Seems pretty straightforward to me:

(A6) Does the GCA prohibit anyone
from making a handgun, shotgun
or rifle?

With certain exceptions a firearm
may be made by a nonlicensee provided
it is not for sale and the maker
is not prohibited from possessing
firearms. However, a person is prohibited
from assembling a nonsporting
semi-automatic rifle or nonsporting
shotgun from imported parts. In addition,
the making of an NFA firearm
requires a tax payment and approval
by ATF. An application to make a
machinegun will not be approved
unless documentation is submitted
showing that the firearm is being
made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C.
5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and
479.105]
 
Thanks everyone. Was just curious what others might know. I'm at least six years out from attempting my first from scratch build. First one will either be a double barrel black powder rifle or double barrel black powder shotgun, don't know if that qualifies as sporting purpose but I don't plan on touching semis, mostly old era stuff. Maybe one day far in the future after I get a kitchen FFL(already got my NRA pistol Instructor certification, will get a C&R once I have my own house, and then so and so on), I'll try my hand at a Gatling (not really all that sophisticated I have found, and can be done none too troublesome once you are already skilled in barrel building and metal fabrication). It'd be fun to get paid to be not only a lawyer, but a guy who builds a few gatlings a year.
 
Thanks everyone. Was just curious what others might know. I'm at least six years out from attempting my first from scratch build. First one will either be a double barrel black powder rifle or double barrel black powder shotgun, don't know if that qualifies as sporting purpose but I don't plan on touching semis, mostly old era stuff. Maybe one day far in the future after I get a kitchen FFL(already got my NRA pistol Instructor certification, will get a C&R once I have my own house, and then so and so on), I'll try my hand at a Gatling (not really all that sophisticated I have found, and can be done none too troublesome once you are already skilled in barrel building and metal fabrication). It'd be fun to get paid to be not only a lawyer, but a guy who builds a few gatlings a year.
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Muzzleloader BP guns aren't considered "firearms" by the ATF, so you're good there.

As for building the Gatlings to sell, you need more than an FFL. You need to pay a Special Occupational Tax to become a manufacturer, and you will have to pay the ITAR. Probably isn't worth the hassle if you'd only do a few a year.
 
Just two pop to mind, you can complete no more than one (1) per year.
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I always see this repeated with no links to support it.

Have you ever verified it or are you guilty of "parroting"? If you have, please include the source.
 
Just two pop to mind, you can complete no more than one (1) per year.
I always see this repeated with no links to support it.

Have you ever verified it or are you guilty of "parroting"? If you have, please include the source.
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Actually it's a mixed-up parrot of a mixed-up parrot...

The MIS-information being mistakenly quoted is that you could only SELL one home-built gun per year without being tagged as an unlicensed manufacturer.

Truth is, there is no defined number of home-builds that you can legally sell -- per year or EVER. The law goes to INTENT in the building of it. It is not wise to build a bunch and sell them all off -- that will appear to be setting yourself up as a manufacturer without paying the license fees but there isn't some magic number. Truth is, you'd be breaking the law if you bought ONE kit and made a gun that you planned all along to sell to someone else. And, you'd NOT be breaking the law if you built 50 guns 'cause you wanted to have the coolest collection in the world -- but then you lost your job and had to sell everything to make your mortgage. I wouldn't want to try to prove either one in court, but there you are.

As far as how many you can build FOR YOURSELF in a year? Knock yourself out! Sky's the limit.

-Sam

P.S. - If you're buying completed receivers (that you have to fill out a 4473 for) and just assembling parts kits on them, you AREN'T manufacturing a gun anyway. The company that built the receiver (and stamped a serial number on it) did that for you. Whole different game.

P.P.S. -- A muzzle-loading, black powder firing gun of just about any type is NOT a firearm (except in a very few states/locations) and you can build them, sell them, shoot them, to your heart's content. Remember, you can buy a muzzle-loader from any number of mail order catalogs and have it shipped to your home. You can buy the parts kits to build them from Cabela's, Dixie, etc. They're about as federally regulated as bowling balls.

P.P.P.S -- Apparently, a HAND-CRANKED Gatling-style guns is not considered by the ATF to be a Title II firearm. Meaning that you can buy, build, and own them just the same as a bolt-action rifle. So if you want to build them, go for it! There are plenty of very nice blue-prints available. You can always call the BATFE and ask them this kind of question -- or better yet, write to them and they will write you a response. Then you know the facts.
 
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Apparently, a HAND-CRANKED Gatling-style guns is not considered by the ATF to be a Title II firearm. Meaning that you can buy, build, and own them just the same as a bolt-action rifle. So if you want to build them, go for it! There are plenty of very nice blue-prints available. You can always call the BATFE and ask them this kind of question -- or better yet, write to them and they will write you a response. Then you know the facts.
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Which is probably why these little gizmos are able to be sold:
http://www.ar15.com/content/products/triggers/gat/
http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/uniquetriggersystems.html
 
P.P.P.S -- Apparently, a HAND-CRANKED Gatling-style guns is not considered by the ATF to be a Title II firearm. Meaning that you can buy, build, and own them just........
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I have seen several hand cranked gatling style, one in Ga. that fired 22 longs and the other was in Texas and fired 5MM I believe. Both were made by the owners
 
Actually thats what I was told by someone at ATF when I called about machining my own right side plate for a 1919a4. The gentleman also made no mention of stamping information into the receiver either, so take this at face value. I can't cite since it was a phone call.
A cursory glance of their website makes no mention of selling, nor limits of production for home built firearms. Of course if I were to assemble multiple firearms in a short time period, I might be inclined to spend $300 for a lawyer to interrpret the law for me. Seems the easiest way to stay out of prison.
 
I'd love to get some AK kits, some flats and the tools to turn them into rifles. That would be a fun hobby. Too bad I can't afford it.
 
Shotgun News has a continuous string of homemade projects in the color copy that comes out.

-no full auto period
-no open bolt/fixed firing pin types
 
-no open bolt/fixed firing pin types
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Wow, good catch! I'd forgotten to mention that. It is good to either stick with commonly built semis (AKs are a good example), or very "safe" designs like bolt-actions, OR to get a detailed letter from the ATF covering the legality of the gun you want to make.

There are some gun designs, especially those that fire from open bolt that are deemed too readily convertable to full-auto. It isn't one, but it could be with a simple change so it's illegal. Sucks, but them's the rules.

I'd love to get some AK kits, some flats and the tools to turn them into rifles. That would be a fun hobby. Too bad I can't afford it.
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It WAS a good hobby! A great hobby for about 5 years -- ending when the ATF stopped the importation of kits with complete barrels. Now it really isn't very economically efficient. Sure wish I'd done a lot more of them back when it was cheap.

Remember, if you were a reader of AKFiles forum, especially, you'd see folks just trying anything at all with their kits 'cause they were so cheap. A real popular theme was building a gun and the beating the crap out of it to make a "war bring-back" lookalike. Guys were dragging them behind trucks down gravel roads, beating on them with chains -- whatever they could think of to do to them and see if they'd still work.

Now those kits would be worth $300-450 a piece (instead of $80) and few people would think of doing anything that would damage their value.

Funny how it can all change so fast.

-Sam
 
Anyone know if this type of thing is legal in Washington State? Not really planning anything, just wanna know.
 
Anyone know if this type of thing is legal in Washington State? Not really planning anything, just wanna know.
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I checked NRA-ILA's page on Washington State and it didn't list any prohibitions against making a firearm. That's not a definitive answer, of course, but it's a lot harder to find legal text that says something is NOT illegal than that is IS illegal. Might want to contact a lawyer or your state's rifle association and see if someone will tell you for sure: http://www.wsrpa.net/cgi-bin/index.pl

I kind of doubt it's against WA state law. I think that few states have ever found reason to specifically prohibit their citizens from making guns. Such activity is already dealt with to the ATF's satisfaction in their own regs, and home-built guns have never been very common anyway. I'd guess that the rush of Kalashnikov kit builds in the last decade or so increased the number of "home-built" guns in the world by 1000-fold.

But that's just a gut-level-guess.

-Sam
 
Anyone know if this type of thing is legal in Washington State? Not really planning anything, just wanna know.
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I think the problem with WA state now is their intepretation of exactly "what" a machine gun is. They consider more than just the receiver a a "machine gun part". I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that some companies stopped selling to, or removed some parts from kits sold to WA residents.
I know there are some folks this year trying to get our weird silencer laws overturned (basically you can buy one and register it with the Feds, but you aren't allowed to use it!?!?!?)
If they get that done, maybe then they can work on our NFA laws which are very strict. It would be nice to get into step with the Feds.
 
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