Home Defense in a Duplex

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Zeke Menuar

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After three years in a crappy neighborhood we are moving to a duplex in a nice neighborhood. Much more room and a real garage.

Defending the new place is going to be a challenge. My living room shares a common wall with a bedroom in the adjoining unit. Any shot that misses the BG has a good chance of penetrating the wall and going into the other unit.

This situation means using my 45 as a HD gun is out of the question. This leaves a CZ-83 .380 and my Mossy 500 and it's 18.5" barrel. I think the shotgun loaded with #7 1/2 loads has the best chance of knocking down the BG and not going through the wall. The 380 loaded with HP's may or may not penatrate depending on distance.

Any other comments or suggestions would be helpful.

ZM
 
A lot of questions arise about penetration of different calibers or shot size. An idea came to me when i read your post, you can buy some 2x4s and some sheetrock(dry wall) and build a frame with the 2x4s and put the sheetrock on both sides, go to the range and shoot at it, shoot at typical HD ranges and note results.
 
This situation means using my 45 as a HD gun is out of the question. This leaves a CZ-83 .380
Click to expand...

Come to think of it doesn't the .380 have the same veloicty as the .45. Around 800 to 900 FPS depending on load?

I would use birdshot in the shotgun. At close range it will still have stopping power but you don't have to worry about over penetration.

-Bill
 
You could put some book cases against that wall and pack them with (gasp) books. May not be foolproof, but I'd much rather go that route than trying to defend the home with a .380 or birdshot.
 
I was thinking of building a book case with a hidden compartment running the whole back side. It would be filled with bricks, bolted to the studs, and the shelves would be filled with books and placed in probable lines of fire. The Box of Truth thread showed this should be effective as a back stop for all normal home defense calibers (don't know how well it would work for those of you with FAL's or M1A's).
 
Check your local fire codes. Often the wall separating the two parts of a duplex is supposed to have upgraded fire resistance . . . maybe this translates to improved bullet resistance.

(Still, most building materials WILL be pentrated by almost any round suitable for self defense. Be careful.)
 
Just about anything you use will penetrate two layers of sheetrock...to include 12 ga birdshot at home defense distances. Any neighbor in the next room is going to eat lead if they are in the line of fire.

I do not think a change in equipment will answer the question. I think a change of rules of engagement is your best bet, such as, "no shots when the LR wall is the backstop."
 
Duplexs are trouble. I' see if there were a way of bedding down close to teh wall in question so you'd be firing away from it.
 
Try Glazer Safety Slugs. Expensive, but will work in your .45 and will not go through a wall.........
 
bird shot in a 12 ga shorty. nothing better.

at the ranges you are likely to engage, a 1 1/4 oz load of 8's or 71/2 or even nines are going to really really stop it now.

to show the effect. measure house, find distance you can think about shooting. go to country, get an old shirt. pack it with a turkey and some other meat, maybe ask the butcher if they got anything that is past date, then shoot the "model" or shoot road kill deer from the distance you measured at home. You will geta hole clean thru about a fist in diameter. In most houses, the actual range of contact is going to be five yards or less often at contact range. at that range the shot column acts like a slug,
 
And that slug-like shot column would go through sheetrock just the same unfortunately. May be slightly less bad for the person on the other side, but still bad.
 
I have personal expierience backing up this statement.

A .380 from a Makarov (CZ-83 is the same barrel length or close to it) WILL go through several layers of drywall, and fiberglass, and insulation and stucco without any trouble.

A change in tactics is in order. Just don't shoot into poor backstops...remember the Four Rules! Lets review them now.
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
 
Most of the scenario's in this place involve shooting from the back master bedroom down the hall towards the garage. Plenty of backstops in that direction.

I am working on making this place very tough to break into. That alone is a pretty good deterrent.

In the process of moving I discovered I have one of the best burglar deterrents available and it doesn't cost a thing. Nosy busybody senior citizens that watch everything that goes on on the block. Very nice people that make note of everything. Not much to see on a private dead end street, but that doesn't stop them.

A couple of them even helped get the couch into the house.

ZM
 
Try Glazer Safety Slugs. Expensive, but will work in your .45 and will not go through a wall.........
Click to expand...

Glaser will go through multiple layers of sheetrock with no problems - around 6 in .45 IIRC... Anything that will penetrate deeply enough to offer a good chance of ending the threat is going to penetrate an interior wall with ease.
 
The easiest solution is simply not to miss. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I live in a duplex too. I've never really thought too much about overpenetration but I probably should. Shooting from my bedroom would entail shooting into the kitchen so hopefully the oven, refrigerator, or microwave would slow down or stop any errant rounds.

I'm pretty sure our separating wall isn't just a normal interior wall because sounds don't transmit as easily as that would. I'm curious what the wall is made of though...
 
How old is the building? Older duplexes often have masonry wallsbetween units. Some newer units have cinderblock firewalls (ocassionally even sand filled for sound).
A newer unit may only have an inch of drywall on each side of the wall. If you build bookcases there is a very good chance they will stop any slug at an angle to the covers of the books. Straight on (parallel to the pages) may slip through.
Tightly packed paper has a tremendous ability to stop bullets. I used bundles of newspaper as an improvised backstop for action checking for many years. A steel box with #10 sides (about 1/8 inch) and a 3/4 inch back plate held about 2 feet of newspaper. The only thing that touched the back plate was a black tip AP I fired to test the system. Everything else stopped with at least 6 inches of spare paper. Pistols rarely went more than 6-8 inches. FMJs in rifles rarely went more than 12 inches.
 
NO the shot column will not go thru a party wall. you can try it. but it won't go thru unless you are at contact range, If the wall are sheet rock, then the house is new enough to have fallen under the UBC that provides for party walls. If the wall are mud plaster, then one round of 7 1/2's will not penetrate both sides of a plaster lath and stud wall in a single wall setup with enough force to endanger anyone on the other side.

party wall code--firerock(5/8''), stud, firerock, air space, firerock, stud, firerock
 
Training

I would suggest taking the NRA Personal Protection in the Home course and lay out your "safe room" to shoot away from the common wall. You should be facing the entry door of the safe room which is usually toward the hallway. Check on the common wall construction. Many older homes have masonry common fire walls. :)
 
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