Hornady Lock-N-Load AP vs. RCBS Pro 2000

[Maxinquaye]

I'm in the market for my first reloading machine. I've read the ABC's of Reloading, and have been haunting this and other forums for a while. I've narrowed it down to either the Hornady Lock-n-load AP or the RCBS Pro 2000. Both are on sale for $299...I think I can get the RCBS with free shipping.

I'll be buying everything from scratch; dies, shellholders, die plates, etc.

My reloading goals are to load about 500 rounds of a given caliber, and then reload that same caliber in one sitting once I've shot it up. I don't mind some setup time when switching calibers, and I'd like to keep the start up costs associated with new calibers to a minimum (that's why I scratched the Dillon line).

I plan to reload for .40, .45, .357, .44, .454 and perhaps .32, 9mm and .223.

Both seem to get good reviews, but I read that for instance the Hornady can have trouble with Lee dies, which is a problem to me since the Lee dies seem to be most affordable. Could you guys give me some feedback as to the pros/cons and any hidden startup costs of each machine? I've read about them, but it's a nightmare to try and figure out pricing and costs when you're new to this since there seem to be so many accessories.

 

[griz]

My only experience is with the RCBS so I'll limit my comments to it. In addition to the press, you will need a shellplate, which runs a little under $30 most places. The press comes with one tool head that holds the dies which you will also need. It also comes with a loader for the primer strips, but only includes a handful of those. You will want more if you are going to load 500 at a time. The CCI primers can be bought in strips (but not everywhere), or the strips themselves can be had. That's all you need to start.

For the next caliber you need another shellplate unless the one you have will already work (for instance the 308 and 45ACP use the same one) and unless you want to switch dies in the tool head you already have you need to get another tool head at about $15. That's it for a caliber change, and the realitively low cost is why I went with that press. I'm pleased with it.

 

[Bronson7]

Max, your choices are fine presses indeed, but why is the Dillon 550 out of the running? Not being critical, just really curious.
Bronson7

 

[Black Snowman]

Caliber conversions for the Dillon get expensive, although it's my understading if you buy from someone knowlegable they can trim down duplicate parts and save you some money. http://www.brianenos.com/

Spend the little extra money for Hornady dies over the Lee. Almost all my gear is Lee including dies and all my new dies are Hornady. Trust me on this one. It's worth the extra few dollars for the features on the Hornady dies.

I don't know any progressive that works great with the Lee dies as the mouths of the carbide dies are beveled instead of radiused and that causes brass to hang up on the mouth if it's not lined up perfectly.

Either press should be quite serviceable. In my experiance the achilies heel of most progressives is the priming system. If you can get a reliable priming system that's a big leap ahead.

 

[insidious_calm]

Hornady L&L AP

This is the press I have. Although I have done very little loading it has functioned flawlessly including priming. I am fairly impressed with the interchangeable die settup too. Maybe the 'wow' factor is just because it is my first and only press but it gets an A+ from me, just bear in mind my inexperience.


I.C.

 

[threefeathers]

I vote for the RCBS Pro 2000. I've had one for 6 months and am absolutely sold. Look for the reviews on this site we can really help you out.

 

[BluesBear]

Get the Hornady. It has automatic indexing.

The RCBS does not and it'll make a big difference in both speed and to avoid the possibility of dropping double powder charge in a case.

Eventually you want a case feeder and the Hornady offering is as good as it gets.
It'll make doing those 500 all at one time go almost twice as fast.

 

[Black Snowman]

Personally I'd prefer auto-indexing. Also, a nice feature of the Hornady is that if you need to do work on your single stage you can swap out one die at a time without losing it's setting. You would have to have the Lock-n-Load press, or install the Lock-n-Load reciever collar in your existing press (if possible). For people like me who load many calibers both single stage and progressive this is a nice touch and a time saver.

 

[Bronson7]

Yeah, between the two, I'd opt for the Hornady, allthough I'm a dillon guy. On the Hornady I also like the die set-up. No floating tool head tells me it's a more precision unit. Bear in mind though, it is not a true Five station press ( depending on how you look at it). You won't be able to install a powder lock-out die as the powder drop and expansion operations are taken up by two stations. Some owners have modded theirs to accomplish powder drop/expansion on one station, freeing up a station for a powder checker/lock-out die.
Bronson7

 

[Cortland]

Go for the Hornady LnL. You can use a powder cop die on the Hornady if you seat and crimp in the same step (which is, by the way, how God intended). Here's the skinny on Lee dies in the Hornady: regular die sets work just fine. The problem is with the Lee factory crimp (FC) dies. Pistol FC dies will not work in station 5, but since 1 => size, 2 => bell, 3 => charge, 4 => seat/crimp, 5 is the only possible place for it. So no Lee pistol FC dies in the Hornady. Lee rifle FC dies will not work in station 5, either, but with rifle 1=> size, 2=> charge, 3=> seat, so that leaves station four open for the rifle FC die. If you want to taper crimp as a separate step on pistol rounds, use the Hornady taper crimp dies. The reason the FC dies don't work on station five is that the crimping operation requires the shellplate to press a collet up into the die body. In the case of station five, the ejector rod is between the bottom of the die and shellplate.

Although I've never used the RCBS press, advantages I can think of off hand are the LnL bushings (really nice if you have a single stage press that also accepts LnL bushings, like the Lee Classic Cast with conversion bushing), the Hornady is auto-indexing, and has the option of a case feeder (a wonderful accessory).

Finally, Hornady die sets are generally only a few dollars more than Lee.

And congrulations to you for deciding against the Dillon. It's a good enough press, but Mike Dillon already has enough machineguns. Read my Dillon/Hornady rant which validates your elimination of the 550 as a possible choice.

 

[Bronson7]

Ouch Cortland, you hurt me bad.
Bronson7

 

[robctwo]

I bought the Hornady back in April. I've loaded 9mm & .40 only. I've got over 9,000 rounds through mine at this point. Got the dies for some .308 and .243 but am in the midst of a four or five month move and all the gear is in storage. I really like the Hornady for the pistols, can't coment on the rifle stuff yet.

 

[jw29650]

I just received my new LNL AP from Midway yesterday. It is serial number 8,xxx so it has the new floor plate and priming system. I would love to learn from current AP users how they set up their presses and any other lessons learned. My initial impression is that it is a well thought out press that is user friendly. I was using the Lee 4 space turrent press. I am thinking that I will use the Lee auto powder measure when I load 40 S&W as it is set up for the powder I use and provides belling and powder despensing in 1 station. With the LNL feature I can set up the Hornady powder measure for loading .223 rifle rounds and easily swap when changing from pistol to rifle loading. The only thing I do not like is that the manual was for the older version of the press and inserts were supplied for the new features. I appreciate any information on tricks or tips with this press.

Regards

JW

 

[Cortland]

jw29whatever,

Here are some tips for you:

First, the powder measure. This is a really great powder measure, much better than Dillon's. I advise that you either buy a metering insert for each load you use (they're cheap) or get the micrometer inserts (pistol & rifle) so you can record the setting of each load (this is really nice).

First with the powder die. There's a clamp thing that goes at the top of the powder die. Do not make the clamp tight! It should be able to spin on the die. I put locktite on the threads and tighten the clamp screws only enough so that the clamp cannot come off the die -- you want this clamp to be able to spin on the die so that you can orient the powder measure in any direction. There's also a bar that inexplicably comes with the powder die. Fasten this (very tightly) to the side of the clamp so that the bar goes up and is inline with the middle of the die. This bar seems to serve no purpose, but when in operation the powder measure wants to spin -- this keeps it in line. When you have the guide bar on the powder die, you won't be able to turn the screw opposite in all the way in. That's fine. When you put the powder measure in the die, all you have to do slide the one bar onto the screw protuding from the powder die, and hook the powder measure spring. There's no need to tighten the screw.

Also with the powder measure, it's important that you adjust the powder die so that the measure is actuated to the fullest possible extent. If the powder measure cylinder does not rotate as far upward as possible on each throw, the measure may start to bind on the way down (you'll have to take the cylinder out and clean it). Just make sure you screw the powder die down far enough so that the measure fully actuates as far as possible.

Also keep all parts on the measure that don't actually touch the powder well oiled -- everything that's not powder coated is bare metal.

Order some extra cartridge retainer springs from Midway; they're cheap. You'll probably butcher one or two of them before you get a "feel" for the press.

Try to avoid spilling powder. Spilled ball or stick powder can (and does) interfere with the priming slide. If you do spill, take the shellplate off and clean it all out.

Don't be afraid to adjust the auto-indexing pawls if the shellplate isn't clicking into place correctly. Adjust these very slowly, a little adjustment goes a long way.

The press doesn't come with any low-primer warning at all. I use a brass rod with a rubber grommet glued on one end. The Dillon auditory low primer warner will work, too.

Buy lots of lock-n-load bushings!

 

[jw29650]

Thanks Cortland for you information. In setting up the press last night, I was having problems with the ejector spring kicking the finished rounds across the room. Is there any way of adjusting this? The indexing worked great. Was very accurate in locating the shell plate directly under the dies. Not like the Lee turrent that I was using.

Thanks again.

JW

 

[Cortland]

The ejector spring is probably the most finicky part of the whole press. You can try adjusting it by squeezing or pulling apart the loop at the end. With a little bit of tinkering, you should be able to get it to eject smoothly.

 

[taliv]

nice rant, cortland. I agree with the half about Dillon, but the difference between my dillon and hornady powder measures is that no matter how i stroke the handle, i get the same weight of powder (+/- .1 grain, i weight them a lot) with my dillon. the rotary mechanism on my hornady is very sensitive and requires consistent motions. this is even true with my harrell's culver powder measure, which is similar, but far more precise. its instructions warn that the key to consistent charges is a smooth consistent movement, and not to expect consistency until you've got some practice with it.

when i (frequently) stop the handle on my progressive press half-way down to dick with something on one of the stations, then complete the stroke, i still get the same amount of powder with the dillon.

but i'm curious, maybe i'm doing something wrong with the hornady measure. do you get better than +/- around .3-.4 grains with your hornady?

btw, emptying the dillon powder measure is annoying, but not nearly as annoying as emptying the primer tube.

 

[Rockstar]

The powder measure differences isn't an issue, as Hornady powder measures work fine on Dillon presses, if you happen to prefer the Hornady measure.

 

[cliffb]

I have no experience with the Hornady but have owned an RCBS Pro 2000 since they came out in 2000.
It is serving me well, loading most handgun calibers.
Things I like:

No primer tubes to load. Just keep feeding it primer strips. It comes with a strip loader though I prefer buying CCI primers already loaded.

The micrometer adjustment on the powder measure. Very easy to record and change powder settings.

Easy to change calibers. Once the dies are set up on a die plate it is very easy to change the shell plate, and die plate, set the powder measure and if needed, change the primer seater plug. It can be done in a few minutes.

Built like a tank. It's not auto indexing but I don't see that as a negative.

 

[Cortland]

With only four stations, using the Hornady measure on a Dillon 550B is constraining, but technically possible.

I have found my Hornady LnL (and my RCBS Uniflow for that matter) to be just as accurate as my old Dillon measure. The trick is to use the pistol or rifle insert as appropriate (the LnL AP only comes with a rifle style insert). A lot of people will attach aquarium pumps or some other vibratory device (no jokes) to their measures -- Dillon or Hornady or otherwise -- in order to help fill out the metering chamber and improve throw-to-throw consistency. My Hornady is probably +/- .05 gr. with ball and most flake powders, and does as well as can be expected with stick powders. It sucks on wheels with IMR 800X, but so does every other measure I've used.

 

[jw29650]

Well, I got my new LNL AP set up this weekend and ran about 250 rounds of 40 S&W through it. Worked fine except missed primer 1 time. I think it was my fault for not seating it. I went ahead and used the lee auto powder measure that I had been using on the Lee turrent press because it measures real well and also bells in same position. The ejection spring worked well once I slowed down and did not force too quickly. My set up is; size in position 1, prime in 1 1/2, bell and fill powder in position 2, seat in position 3 and Lee Factory Crimp die in position 4, leaving position 5 open. I was impressed at how quick you can load a bunch of ammo with this press. I set up the Hornady powder measure to fill my .223 cases. I see what was said about getting a lot of LNL bushings! This is my next purchase. I will be ordering the package of 10. My wife likes the spent primer tube. They all go into the trash can, not all over the floor. My overall impressions is that this is a great press and would highly recommend to anyone who was thinkg of going to a progressive press.

JW

 

[Rockstar]

Cortland: Yeah, I was thinking of a 650, not a 550. However, Lyman makes an inexpensive powder-through die that'll work with a drum-type powder measure for belling/dropping powder at the same time. I don't see that to be a problem, even with the 550.

I do see self-indexing as a big plus. I've loaded on the non-indexing RCBS 2000, and I really don't like the manual indexing. It's a well-made, heavy-duty machine, but I'd rather just spend a little more money and go with a self-indexing Dillon or Hornady. (with case feeder) I'd also prefer preloading tubes, per the new Hornady system or the Dillon system, to using those plastic strips.

 

[Cortland]

However, Lyman makes an inexpensive powder-through die that'll work with a drum-type powder measure for belling/dropping powder at the same time.

Not really -- the Lyman die allows powder-through-expansion but you'd have to manually operate the measure. The Lyman powder-through-expansion die would not work with a case-actuated measure.

Some people have taken the funnels from the Lyman powder-through-expansion die and adapted them to work with the Hornady measure and powder die, but it's not a great solution.