How difficult is it to obtain an FFL?

[SShooterZ]

I recently completed an online request through the BATF website for an FFL application and fingerprint kit. My question is, is there anything I need to know while applying for an FFL? Is there anything really difficult I should be aware of or is it simply a clean background, fingerprints, fee and done.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

For me, getting the FFL was the easy part.

I live in the Peoples Republic of California and my main hassle was compliance with state and local laws - which are redundant, time consuming, and cost money.

For me to run my business I was required to have 7 seperate licenses, permits, and certifications (FFL, Certificate of eligibility, CFD #, Local Business License, Retail Sales Permit, High Capacity Magazine Permit, Certified Handgun Safety Instructer).

So...to answer your question - check your local laws. I found the FFL was the easy part.

 

[Jim K]

Which FFL? Getting a Collectors's FFL ("C&R License") is pretty easy if there are no local problems.

If you mean a dealer's FFL, you can run into problems if you are not actually going to engage in business. BATF considers it a business license and effectively says that you must be actually set to conduct a business, not just buy wholesale for your buds or yourself.

So that brings up what Sir Aardvark says, and he is right. And he doesn't even mention so many other facets of doing business, like bookkeeping, getting a business premises, taxes, OSHA protection, Social Security and tax deduction for employees, zoning laws, insurance, etc., etc.

So Sir Aardvark and I agree - getting the FFL is the easy part.

Jim

 

[USP45usp]

Sir,

If I may ask, what did the ATF look for when they did the inspection of the place of business?

I have the packet and am going to get the fingerprints, etc.. and send it off. My only thing is the inspection. I don't plan on having in house inventory, just transfers and catalog sales.

My place is zoned for "industrial and farm" and since I will be the only "employee" I am exampt from all the red tape that most go through (I do wonder if I have to pay myself $7.25 per hour though ).

Wayne

 

[Pilgrim]

If I may ask, what did the ATF look for when they did the inspection of the place of business?

They don't seem to mind if you operate out of your home, as long as your customers don't have to walk through your family's living area to get to your shop. That means a separate entrance to the shop.

My place is zoned for "industrial and farm" and since I will be the only "employee" I am exampt from all the red tape that most go through (I do wonder if I have to pay myself $7.25 per hour though.

I think for peace of mind with the IRS and your state taxing agencies, you should have a separate bank account for the business. Don't forget when you make quarterly estimated tax payments to calculate your self-employment tax.

Pilgrim

 

[USP45usp]

The "living area" will be the shop. I am the only one in the house (not counting the cat) so I don't care if they are in the "living area", they can watch Fox News as they browse through the catalog .

As for setting up another account, I had that planned. So when I show a loss (or a gain) it comes from that account and not tied to my primary account.

What I mean by inspection is do they search/inspect the entire place? I don't want them going into my bedroom (nothing illegal, just a mess and I like it that way) or the kitchen (I'm slow on dish washing duty). Also, what type of safes do I need to get? I won't have an inventory here but I will have my personal guns as well as my C&R guns (with bound book if they wish to see).

Right now I have just small safes for the handguns that are bolted in the closet to the wall and a homark for the rifles that is bolted to the wall but anyone with some muscle can tear it out.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

Wayne

 

[SShooterZ]

This is all very good information and advice. Thanks!

Keep it coming.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

USP

My FFL was for a 'Dealer in Firearms'; I just let it expire on 1/1/05, so that is why I'm speaking in the past tense.

The interview itself was no big deal. The ATF Agent and his trainee showed up at the house at the scheduled time then proceeded to ask a bunch of questions - do you have a criminal record?, does your wife know you're doing this?, you realize you must run this as a business?, etc, etc....

They did not search the house, but, they did ask to see the gunsafe. Then they went into the safety spiel - bolt your safe to the floor, get a monitored alarm system, put deadbolts on all the doors, deal only with people you know (they said they say that to people who deal out of thier residences).

The Agents were both nice, polite, and helpful. The last thing they did was hand me thier cards and say "If you have any questions at all, please call".

 

[USP45usp]

Sir,

Thank you. I will be buying a fireproof heavy safe for any storage that I may have until the people either come to pick up the firearm or if they have it on Lay-A-Way (I will charge about 30% more for the firearm if they chose this opinion).

As for a business, I know that the FFL is for "dealer in firearms" so I must show some sort of profit. I already have potential customers that wish to deal with me as soon (if) I apply and receive.

As for the business license, I looked into that and it's $150 per year for "small business, no employees". Since it is considered a small business, the first $5000 is exempted from State tax.

I also live in a very unique zoning area. The city clerk, when told what the business would consist of, wasn't very happy that she couldn't do anything about denying the business permit. The city does have zoning laws which make it illegal (no permit issued) to sell firearms, drugs ( ), or pornographic materials from a resisdence unless it's a zoned store front. Also, that place of business can ONLY sell the specific items that are considered to be in that group (you can't have a gun, porn store that has a pharmacy in the back).

So, I'm pretty well set up, just need to get all the paperwork together and send it in.

Oh, "Do you have a criminal record" BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, what a question. I wonder if they would take the answer, "Well, you issued me a C&R license, I surly hope not"

Thanks again for the replies, you have been extremely helpful.

Wayne

 

[Aguila Blanca]

My place is zoned for "industrial and farm" and since I will be the only "employee" I am exampt from all the red tape that most go through (I do wonder if I have to pay myself $7.25 per hour though ).

You might want to review the definitions in your zoning laws. Not only is every state different, zoning laws are usually adopted at the municipal level, which means every city and town is different. I'm familiar with the zoning laws in a lot of the towns around me, and "industrial" uniformly means manufacturing, warehousing, and activities like that. Selling anything to end users is considered (around here) to be "retail" or "mercantile," and would NOT be allowed in an industrial/farm zone.

 

[USP45usp]

Hawk,

I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate the feedback. What I am saying is that my zoning laws in this area are very unique due to I am considered "eugene" but the area has been incorporated in many other cities years pass and thus all of the zoning that was given still stands. Where I live, it used to be part of Gosen(sp), then Springfield, then Eugene (and maybe even Glenwood at one time).

Here, Industrial means that you can set up a fab. shop, industrial shop, or a store front for any type of shop. Take our "industrial ave." here in Eugene that has factories, porn shop, gun store, auto repair, smelting, forest products, and if I remember correctly, a bar. Farm or Ag. zoning means that you are not subject to the laws concerning the issues of permits for light or medium land use. You don't have to have a permit to add on, build, put up fences (any height), cut down trees, or cover up small wet lands (this one has to be assesed first).

I will be the first to state that even though the house is a POS and I can't get anyone to deliever fast food out this far, it is a great place in order to set up any type of business that one wishes (legal) and even sometimes, illegal (and yes, we do have the bad element operating out here). That is the price of having more freedom then most, you can do what you wish but you have to put up with the noise, the smells, and the people. But I will take that over feel good laws any day .

Wayne

 

[Sir Aardvark]

I have found that the local laws are the most difficult to comply with.

For example: the city that I just had my FFL in had no restrictions for this type of business.

The city that I moved out of about 4 years ago would allow you to run an FFL out of a residence, but with the following restrictions: All doors leading into the premises must be a minimum of 16 ga steel and have specified locks installed (the locks were heavy duty, and cost $125.00 each), each entrance must have a light next to it that is illuminated from dusk to dawn, a monitored alarm system must be installed that is audible 300 feet from the residence, an approved safe capable of holding your entire inventory must be located on the premises, the numbers that make up your address must be a minimum of 4 inches in height, be painted white, and be readily visible from the street, a fire marshal must inspect the premises for the small fee of $150.00, you must also register your alarm system with the city police dept. and pay the appropriate yearly fee. I'm sure there's more, but you get the drift.

I believe now that in California you cannot get an FFL without actually having a real store-front shop; I may be wrong on this as I would have been grandfathered in regardless, and did not pay much attention to it. So.....back to the original message - getting the FFL was the easy part!.