How many guns/yr to maintain FFL?

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

warddc

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
90
Location
upstate NY
Does anyone know the minimum number of guns per year the BATF requires an FFL to sell before they pull the license for 'lack of business'??

I am interested in part time buying and selling guns but I'm not quitting my day job.

d.
 
I understand the number is somewhat subjective and not set in concrete. If you're planning to do this out of your home, will your local zoning laws allow this?
 
I've never seen an actual number. It is like the mystical number of firearms a C&R can sell before ATF decides he's dealing without a license. It depends on how well the agent got along with their spouse the night before or what they had for breakfast.

The renewal application for the FFL now asks about the number of transfers, so if you luck out and don't get audited by ATF, they would still get you at renewal time.
 
zoning not a problem

I live fairly rural in upstate ny. i don't live in a city or village. we are zoned residential but no one at the clerks office cares what you do in the boonies.

i just wondered if it was worth my time trying to venture into a small gun dealing business part time and would the batf allow it.

d.
 
It is also my understanding that ATF checks with the pertinent zoning agency to ensure your place of business is properly zoned. That's why I asked the question.

You might talk to the friendly folks at the nearest ATF office before you apply. After all, they're the ones that are going to be visiting you.
 
Well, if at renewal time they only look at the # of TRANSFERS that you've done you could build up a beefy number of them by doing the NICS checks/transfers for locals buying stuff off the Internet. Given recent threads (and what I see from brick and mortar shops around here) cheap transfers aren't exactly common.
 
I love threads that answer little questions that I had in the back of my mind, but never thought to ask.:D
 
I had some slow years in the beginning, and they did ask during the first renewal how many transfers I had made each year and what type of weapons I was transferring. In subsequent renewals I was never asked how many transfers I was making. Last year, what with being activated with my Guard unit and all it was pretty slow, but I figure thats a legitimate reason that they can't use against me.
 
If they ever manage to pass the "gun show loophole" law, you could make a fortune doing transfers at guns shows. A flat $5 per gun and you'd have a line around the corner.
 
"If they ever manage to pass the "gun show loophole" law, you could make a fortune doing transfers at guns shows. A flat $5 per gun and you'd have a line around the corner."

Theres a thought...except I stopped going to gun shows a few years ago when they became more of an exercise is selling nazi mementos and overpriced firearms.....and it would be a sucky reason to be making a few bucks.
 
.....and it would be a sucky reason to be making a few bucks.
Click to expand...
Actually, it would be a great service to gun owners in aiding them buying and transferring guns without ripping them off in the event the government passes a sucky law requiring dealer transfers of all firearms.
 
Ward, I'm also in rural NYS and am NYS licensed gunsmith..I do all the work for the largest sporting goods store here so I don't sell any guns.
I need my FFL mainly for parts.
I did get a BATF audit this last fall and nothing was mentioned at all about sales.
 
They took my FFL a while back, or rather 'gave me the oppurtunity to voluntarily surrender it' for zoning. I wouldn't call and ask them about it or you're guarenteed to get a negative. Just apply and use it while you can until they finally catch up with you and say something about it.

Mail order / internet sales do not require parking. maybe you can skirt the zoning laws that way. (Parking is what they harped on to me, as far as the zoning laws.)
 
Edward, Back when the FFL crackdown started, I tried to stay one step ahead of them on the zoning thing.
I went to the town board and applied for a "special use permit"..After getting grilled for about an hour, they gave me one.
It was $200 for the permit and I have to renew it every 3 years for $75 each time.
I also had to agree to never put out a sign.

Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it..But I'm just stubborn enough to jump thru the hoops and keep the license.
 
Help me out here on the specifics guys, but wasn't there a guy busted by the BATFE for "engaging the firarms business" when he only sold something like 4 guns (from his private collection) in a one year period? If that's the case, I would argue that selling/transferring 4 guns/year would therefore be enough to justify your FFL.

Now I certainly disagree that the guy above should have gotten an FFL, but if you're worried about low sales volume, trotting that example out might help your case in an audit/renewal situation where the subject came up.
 
Parking is what they harped on to me
Click to expand...
ATF complained about your parking? That sounds strictly like a local zoning requirement. Don't recall anything in the FFL rules requiring parking.

In a similar situation, my mother built a beauty salon onto the side of her house. Per the zoning, she had to provide customer parking. She simply poured a concrete slab next to the driveway and labeled it "parking".
 
I read that it was selling more than 12 guns a year required an FFL.

That was 10 years ago though. Is the private selling limit an arbitrary number now?
 
Yeah the ATF said that while my premesis passed inspection for security & storage, I was in violation of my local zoning laws which is not in compliance with their rules. Parking is one of those fine print technicalities that they used to shut me down. I had only transfered like 3 or four guns in a couple three years, but that never came up. This was back around the time that the (20/20?) show aired, "More Gun Dealers than Gas Stations". Early 90's.

They said that if I voluntarily surrendered my FFL that I'd be eligible to reapply at a later date but that if I didn't and they had to institute revocation proceedings against me that I'd never be able to apply for an FFL again. I surrendered it.

I'm thinking about getting a manufacturers license to peddle my bullets on the net. Special use permit, hmmm. I'm going to check into that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

BSA1
  • Locked
Are FFL Holders also Private Gun Owners?
Replies
5
Views
868
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
B
  • Locked
How many Guns Can a Non-FFL Sell
Replies
18
Views
6K
BBW
B
A
  • Locked
Engaging in Gun sales business without being an FFL?
Replies
8
Views
637
Kharn
K
S
  • Locked
Do FFL's always own the guns that they sell?
Replies
11
Views
1K
mgkdrgn
M
T
  • Locked
FFL?
Replies
3
Views
375
eastwood44mag
E
Back
Top