How much cylinder "wobble" is too much?

[Orion8472]

My dad has two Taurus revolvers. When I cock the hammer back, the cylinder has some movement. It doesn't lock up nicely like his Ruger GP100. I would guestimate around 2-3 millimeters of travel. My question is, how much is TOO much?

 

[bdb benzino]

Full lock up is the hammer cocked and let down with the trigger still held back, not just the hammer cocked. You may notice a big difference between the two.

 

[Remllez]

There is some rotational play built into the gun to account for chamber/barrel alignment. I would consider it excessive if you get a lot of lead splatter when shooting. Otherwise it should be serviceable.

 

[Orion8472]

I'll see if I can't take a quick video and put it up on youtube to show it. I'll let you know later.

 

[Jim Watson]

Two or three milimeters is .080-.120" in American money.
That would be a huge amount of slop in a revolver.

 

[dfariswheel]

With modern revolvers like the S&W, Ruger, Taurus, newer Colt's like the King Cobra, etc, the cylinder is specifically designed to be slightly loose at ignition.

This is to allow the bullet passing from the chamber to the bore to force the cylinder into alignment with the barrel.
Pulling the trigger and holding it back while checking for cylinder rotation is NOT a valid test for anything in these guns.
The only revolvers that lock up tightly with the trigger pulled are the old Colt action guns as used in the Python, Detective Special etc.

While some revolvers may seem to lock tightly with the trigger pulled, in fact there's enough backlash built into the action to allow the cylinder to move and align itself.

There is no factory standard for how loose the cylinder can be. The only standard is, is the revolver accurate, and does it spit bullet metal.
If the revolver is accurate and isn't spitting bullet metal, how loose the cylinder is isn't an issue.
Again, these revolvers are designed to have cylinder rotation at ignition.

 

[Orion8472]

I'm thinking it may just be the way Taurus made their revolvers. I went to my LGS and looked at a .22lr Taurus, . . . pulled the hammer back, and it had that same play in the cylinder. The Ruger SP101 that they had was tighter.

I guess it just is what it is. Next time I go on a range trip with my dad, I'll be sure to check for peeled off metal.

 

[skidder]

It doesn't lock up nicely like his Ruger GP100.

That's like comparing a port-a-potty to a brick ---deleted--- house.

 

[Orion8472]

I agree with that statement. . . . . even in censored form.

My interest in the GP100/SP101 has been increasing these past few days. Impressive quality! However, I have reservations about getting into another caliber. Money isn't flowing in and adding yet another caliber to the mix seems less desirable to me. Now, I COULD just go with the .22lr version of the SP101, . . . have the awesome quality and feel of the Ruger, yet still be able to shoot inexpensive loads. I just hate to drop that much on a .22lr platform. I know that Ruger came out with a 9mm version a while back that required moon clips. Maybe one day they will offer a dedicated 9mm cylinder for the SP101 [or GP100] with milling so that moon clips won't be necessary.

At this point, I may just go with the .22lr SP101.

 

[skidder]

I know that Ruger came out with a 9mm version a while back that required moon clips. Maybe one day they will offer a dedicated 9mm cylinder for the SP101 [or GP100] with milling so that moon clips won't be necessary.

Yes! This would be a good thing.

 

[Orion8472]

Listen up, Ruger!!!

 

[bdb benzino]

I went to my LGS and looked at a .22lr Taurus, . . . pulled the hammer back, and it had that same play in the cylinder.

On my Taurus and S&W revolvers, If you just pull back the hammer and test cylinder wobble, it is much more noticeable than when being in acctual lock up, which is when the hammer is cocked and then let down while the trigger is still held back. I can't tell from your description if you are testing lock up this way or not.

 

[Orion8472]

No, I was just testing the wobble with the hammer back. So are you saying that the best way to test wobble is to pull the trigger while holding the hammer?

 

[Waywatcher]

Make sure gun is unloaded, then: the best way to check for cylinder wobble is to pull the trigger and hold it to the rear, ignoring the hammer (let it fall). Continue holding trigger back while feeling for cylinder wobble with other hand.

This mimics the firing of the gun and gives the closest representation.

 

[bdb benzino]

Keep the trigger pulled after you have let the hammer down.

 

[Jim NE]

I have two S&W revolvers that lock up tight - bank vault tight - on most or all chambers. A third gun, a 40 year old model 14, is close to tight, but has a very small amount of play. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but these three guns are my most accurate/consistent shooting S&W revovers.

The other half dozen S&W's I own are more typical, not a lot of slop, but noticable. They're all accurate, too, but not like the tight guns.

 

[Orion8472]

Okay, guys. I understand the process now. Thank you. Will give it a try today and report back later.

I appreciate the comments. Not being a revolver guy, this level of information is excellent to receive. Thanks!

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

As others have said -UNLOAD THE FIREARM- then... pull the hammer back, then gently hold the hammer while squeezing the trigger. By squeezing the trigger the hammer will want to fall. Gently guide it back to rest but keep the trigger squeezed. This is full lock up.

A little side to side play in each direction (laterally) is fine. You want less movement if you try to move it forward and back. Side to side movement doesn't really bother me but beware of excessive forward and back movement.

If you want to check lock up, what you can do is get a flashlight, and with an unloaded firearm do the above tests on each chamber however while keeping the trigger squeezed, look down the barrel and shine a light into the barrel-cylinder gap so that you can see down the barrel and cylinder all the way down to the firing pin. The cylinder and barrel should be aligned well on each cylinder.

If the cylinders align, the firing pin protrudes, the timing is ok (cylinder lock releases before cylinder turns and locks before hammer falls), and there is not excessive forward and back movement of the cylinder, you are good to go!

 

[dfariswheel]

Again, HOLDING THE TRIGGER BACK IS NOT A VALID TEST FOR ANYTHING ON ANY REVOLVERS EXCEPT THE OLDER COLT'S.

Almost all revolvers are locked up by the SIDE of the hand that rotates the cylinder pressing on the ejector ratchet.
When the action is cocked the top of the hand starts the cylinder rotating, but immediately bypasses the ejector ratchet and it's the SIDE of the hand that pushes the cylinder the rest of the way.
Once the hammer is just cocked, that's as tight as the cylinder is capable of locking.
Holding the trigger back cannot lock it any tighter since the side of the hand just slides past the ratchet.
No matter HOW hard you pull the trigger, the cylinder can't lock any tighter.

Again, no matter how tight it SEEMS to be locked, there's enough backlash designed into the action to allow the cylinder to move enough to align the chamber with the bore.

Only the older Colt's like the Python action locks up tight with the trigger pulled.
In the old Colt's the TOP of the hand pushes against the ejector ratchet to force the cylinder into tight Colt's "Bank Vault" lockup.
The harder you pull the trigger (within reason, you can damage it) the harder the hand pushes against the ratchet and the tighter the cylinder locks.

In guns like the S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson and newer models of Colt's if the action is out of time and the cylinder isn't locking fully, you fit a WIDER hand.

In the old Colt's like the Python, if the action is out of time and the cylinder isn't locking fully, you either stretch the hand or fit a new LONGER hand.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Holding the trigger back won't damage the firearm and the lockup should be identical to when the hammer is cocked. The difference is the "full lockup" method prevents the examiner from looking down a barrel with a cocked hammer. All said and done just seems safer/right. FYI j frames smith internal hammer centennial models seems to lock up tighter with the trigger back.

 

[Orion8472]

I tested my parents revolvers.

1. Taurus .22lr 9 shot - Quite a bit of wobble.
2. Taurus 38 special snub nose - almost as much as the .22lr
3. Taurus [Rossi] .357mag snub nose - seems okay, just a little wobble.
4. Ruger GP100 - Rock solid lock up.

I plan on doing a quick youtube video to show the wobble of #1 in the near future.

 

[Orion8472]

Looks like I spoke incorrectly as to the amount of cylider wobble. I finally was able to try it with an actual measurer and it came to just about 1mm of wobble. Now, I DID look down the barrel and could see the edge of the cylinder wall if I turned it to the extent of the wobble, but that may not be its natural position. I'm beginning to think it is just the way Taurus revolvers are.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

I don't wobble it when I look down the barrel. If you're worried about it, call Taurus. From what you've said, it doesn't sound alarming to me.