How much do I need to spend for 600 yards?

[Jeff H]

Basically I'm looking for advice on how much $ and what type of scope I need for NRA 600 yard shooting. I won't be shooting further than this so I hope I don't need a bazillion dollar scope.

The way my AR is configured right now, I couldn't make a 600 yard shot to save my life but I only want to buy a scope once if I can help it. In the future I want to buy another upper with a 1:7 twist barrel and shoot at the 600 yard range at the gun club. (and closer distances too)

How much magnification do you need to see the 600 yard targets clearly?

I'm not really interested in having the best scope ( I could quickly go broke that way) but I do want a serviceable one that won't have to be re-zeroed often.

 

[WNTFW]

Jeff H,
I have shot @ 600 with the AR with NM sights. It is not that bad at all. Don't talk yourself out of it. The aiming scales for the yardage.

I have also shot with scopes.
Super Sniper fixed power 16X.
Mueller 4x16 http://muelleroptics.com/mt41650igr
Nightforce 8x32 with mildot field tactical reticle. (NOT MINE)

All worked fine. I would rather have a 30mm tube than a 1". The scopes features and resolution are to be considered. I would want repeatable adjustments, adjustable for parallax and good resolution. Reticle style would also be a factor. I don't like the fixed power mainly because It can be a pain to use for dry firing. Things that you don't think of is can you read the turrets and see which way is left-right from your shooting position will show up later whe you are living with the scope.

Super Sniper fixed power 16X. - Nice enough. I little bulky. If I were not fixed I would really like it better. Click were very repeatable

Mueller 4x16 http://muelleroptics.com/mt41650igr - Downsides are 1 inch tube and the knobs are numbered funny - Still I am happy with the scope. The turrets can be used as target turrets or capped. It seem a bit cheesy at first but I quickly came to like them. Some say they are made in the same factory as Sightron.

Nightforce 8x32 with mildot field tactical reticle. (NOT MINE) Only downside is price! The reticle has the elements as outlines not solid. I was surprised how much I liked that reticle. Even the mildots were not solid.

Nikon, Pentax and a few other wont break the bank for what they deliver. Premier Rectictle is supposed to be real nice. I just comes down to $$$. Do you have a price range / limit?

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I am personally very fond of Leupold scopes. If it were me, I'd just get their fixed 10X scope (the one the army snipers use). It would be like shooting without a scope at 60 yards, which I'm sure you are ok with. I've shot at 400 yards with a 2.5X fixed scope on one of my hunting rifles and hit the 24"x24" steel 4 out 5 times (I'm about a 3 MOA shooter normally) and I felt it was enough scope for that distance.

 

[TonyAngel]

It's really a matter of the size of the targets that you are shooting with and your skill. I happen to be one of those people that needs a clearly defined up close view of the target to be able to shoot well. I run a Nightforce 5.5-22X50 on one rifle and a Vortex PST 6-24X50 on another. I like the Nightforce better and will be getting another. The PST is going to be relegated to rimfire duty. Of course, at around $750, the PST was less than half the price of the Nightforce.

As far as price goes, I always say, get the best that you can afford. How much can you spend? In the $300 or so price range, I'd look at Vortex and Sightron SII. At twice the price I'd look at the PSTs and Sightron SIIIs. They are built well and the settings are repeatable.

 

[Frogomatik]

truth be told, if your eyes are good, and you get a good aperture sight you'll shoot just as well with irons as you will with a scope, and spend alot less money.

but either way, optics or irons, the sights do not make the shooter.

 

[Zerodefect]

Any decent setup should work fine. You won't really need anything super fancy for 600 yards with an AR. But may be more fun with a dedicated SPR over a CQB oriented carbine.

How precise do you need to be?

-How about a Larue Stealth 18" upper or a BCM Mk12 SPR Mod 3x 18" upper.
-Any scope. 1-4x or 3-9x, 5-20x all should work. Larue Lt-104 scope mount.
-SSA ammo

Things really don't get tough, and hard to spec, until 800 yards IME.

 

[Jeff H]

How precise do you need to be?

If I'm not mistaken, I think the X ring is 1MOA, so you have to be fairly precise if you want to score well.

I'd like to spend under $300 if I can get a good scope for that, but you know what they say: buy once, cry once, so I want to make sure I get the right scope as well.

 

[taliv]

and you get a good aperture sight you'll shoot just as well with irons as you will with a scope, and spend alot less money.

maybe you're thinking of different sights than I am, but go price RPA, warne, etc. Was more than what i paid for a nightforce benchrest 12-42x

 

[MCMXI]

truth be told, if your eyes are good, and you get a good aperture sight you'll shoot just as well with irons as you will with a scope

If that's true, why do F-Class targets have 1/2 MOA X-ring and a 1 MOA 10-ring compared to 1 MOA X-ring and 2 MOA 10-ring for Service Rifle targets?

I consider 15X to be the minimum magnification for 1/2 MOA X-ring targets. I use a 5-25x50mm Leupold Mark 4 or 5-25x56mm Premier Reticles Heritage on my .308 Win F-Class rifle out to 600 yards. Don't forget that the target is a big black blob rather than a nice sharp white 1/2 MOA steel plate. You need to be able to make out the scoring rings for accurate holds, left/right/up/down. I don't know if people realize this, but it's not just a case of centering the reticle in the center of the target and pulling the trigger. First off, you may not be able to get a perfect center zero so you may have to hold over or under. Also, the wind may be variable and you don't have all day to wait for ideal conditions so you have to adapt and hold left or right as well as up and down. This is where resolution is really important. Throw in mirage and it gets tricky and you'll be fighting to stay in the 10 ring let alone the X ring.

 

[taliv]

1858, actually, i think it's more because of the sling-supported vs rest-supported than the sights.

would be interesting to compare the scores of prone shooters as our 3x1000 matches usually are 2 matches "irons" and 1 match "any sight" to see statistically what difference irons vs optics really makes. my guess is not much, unless it's foggy or poor light conditions early in the morning

edit: and by "not much" my guess is not more than maybe 2 points?

 

[MCMXI]

If I were starting over and buying a scope specifically for F-Class type shooting i.e. known distance and paper targets with 1/2 MOA X-ring, I'd probably buy a Nightforce 8-32x56mm with 1/8 MOA adjustments.

 

[MCMXI]

1858, actually, i think it's more because of the sling-supported vs rest-supported than the sights.

Actually, the F-Class targets used to be the same as the Service Rifle targets but too many perfect scores became problematic so the rings were reduced and the problem went away. There doesn't seem to be a need to reduce the Service Rifle targets because few shooters manage 200-20X at 200 yards let alone at 600 yards.

 

[Frogomatik]

maybe you're thinking of different sights than I am, but go price RPA, warne, etc. Was more than what i paid for a nightforce benchrest 12-42x

Ross vs nightforce is not an even comparison. It's like comparing a Purdy to a Springfield.

 

[taliv]

i think it happened closer to 2007

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/rules/rul_hpr_07.pdf

 

[MCMXI]

i think it happened closer to 2007

I was just about to make the same point.

 

[Jim Watson]

Maybe he was referring to the change in conventional targets from the old V target to the present X series. F class went from highpower targets to dedicated 1 MOA 10 ring targets pretty soon after NRA added the event.

The OP should realize that if he puts a scope on his AR that will convert it from a Service Rifle to a Match Rifle.

 

[Howard Roark]

It's easier to keep on top of the wind when you're looking at mirage through a rifle scope. That's another reason for reducing the scoring ring sizes.