How much powder to buy for .308

[wintermute76]

Got a precision rifle class coming up in a month and a half, I need 250 rounds of "match" grade ammo.

I'm thinking 168 grain Sierra MatchKings, about how many pounds of powder am I going to need to load say 350 rounds? Is there a website for this kinda stuff?

I'm a bit new at reloading, but I have a friend who's into it, he's going to give me a hand

Thanks

 

[Mark whiz]

Well,
there are 7000gr of powder in a pound. The .308 cartridge averages around 45gr to charge a case. Thats about 155 rounds per pound of powder. So for 350 rounds, you're looking at needing 3lbs of powder - which will get you about 465 rounds total.

 

[Sisco]

7000 grains to the pound, you'll use in the neighborhood of 44 grains / round with 168gr SMK's, that gives you 159 rounds / pound.

Mark was typing faster than I was

 

[The Bushmaster]

Sisco...Spend more time typing then at the range shooting and your typing speed will increase. I hate this hunt and peck. Don't you? It's slow....

 

[Mark whiz]

My typing is a "Religious Experience" - Seek and Ye Shall Find!!

 

[Sisco]

Actually, I need more range time. I can type 40 wpm.

 

[bogie]

Give one of the surplus powder guys a call, and buy an eight pound jug of 4895. It'll cost a llittle more than 3 pounds, but hey... it's what is MEANT to be used with the matchking.

 

[mpthole]

You'll probably want to measure your chamber and test a few batches of the hand loaded rounds before you class to make sure the perform correctly. Personally, after my first couple batches of hand loads, I may as well keep buying Fed GMM. Its a work in progress I guess.

 

[taliv]

uhh, yeah, seriously, put at least 50 or so of your loaded rounds through the gun before you go to the class. (preferably 100+)

if you don't get at least a decent 100yrd zero on the gun and establish what sort of groups you can get off a bench, then you're pretty much just wasting your money on the class and you'll be holding everyone else in the class up while the instructors mess with your gear.

btw, how far out do you expect to shoot in this class?

(fyi, my current favorite load with the 168g is over 42.0g of Reloader 15. It's a little slower than most loads but groups well from a 26" barrel. YMMV)

 

[wintermute76]

I was figuring I"d have to load at least a few hundred extra for load development and stuff.
I have 7 pounds of WC846 that I picked up with some brass last fall. And I have a buddy at Federal, he said he can get me the info on the load for the Gold Medal Match, so I should have a decent start point.

Probably going to be shooting out to 600 yards. I"m shooting a Savage 10FP-LE1 20" barrel.

 

[P0832177]

Fed GM Match
was 43.4 of IMR 4064 Fed 210M in Fed GM Match Brass with 168gr SMK at 2.82. I think that they have went to RL15 now. Not sure of the exact charge wt. What is scary is that perhaps you need to do more reading on reloading in general. Knowing how many grains of powder are in a pound is reloading 101 :banghead: . W846 is a ball surplus powder and it was never used for loading Match grade ammo NEVER EVER. I sure hope the brass you have is not once fired military brass! Cause sure as you know what it was fired out of 7.62 cal machine gun. And, you will need a Small Base Resizer to get the brass ready to load, plus you have the crimp of the primer pocket to get rid of,too! Boy you have a lot of work a head of you to make the surplus brass workable! Lake City M852 Match ammo was with IMR4895. BHA uses Ramshot TAC in the 308.

Save yourself a lot headache and load development. Varget will allow for the best velocities and optimum accuracy with very little load work up. For the best load development use this method. http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/dannewberrysoptimalchargeweightloaddevelopment/
Shopping list:
1-Varget powder
2-Win Brass or Lapua if you are feeling rich!
3-CCI BR2 Primers
4-Get Sierra 168gr SMK or Lapua 167 Scenar might be cheaper.

Work up load in 0.5 increments to 46 of Varget loaded at 2.82COAL. Federal Brass flat out sucks! It is not worth the time to reload as the primer pockets will enlarge and render the brass usesless with a few loadings.

A nice cheaper alternative ? Get some BHA from the Gunstop and save the brass. BHA brass is Win brass and worth the effort.

The range at Princeton is not going to allow much more then 375yds . That comes from Sully

 

[taliv]

that's interesting... I know a lot of people like varget (I use it for several loads myself) but I thought the general consensus was that you couldn't get the same velocity out of varget that you get with R15, etc.

 

[P0832177]

Taliv...
I get well over 2750 out of my Varget powered 175SMK load! That is out of factory Rem 700 VS tube. I use Lapua or Varget Brass and that is no problem! Varget is good stuff.

 

[cookiemonster]

Varget GOOD!

But my main reason for this reply was about the federal brass.....is that ALL federal brass? I was hoping to get a few more reloads out of my 7-30 Waters stuff.


Also might wanna try H-335...I have had decent luck with it...44 grains over 150 gr. BTSP boolits in prepped Hirt surplus brass with CCI 200 primers...out of my old fal when I had it I was getting about 2650 with a 20" barrel...and a nice cycle with very little carbon fouling in the gas piston/plug area...but again, thats a semi-auto not a bolt gun...but that was a fairly safe load for any rifle, I believe...

Darrell

 

[wintermute76]

The WC846 was just a thought, I'll pick up some different powder then. I got the Federal brass for free, so I can't complain too much there.

I'll admit I do have a lot to learn here, that's why I"m looking for help

We shot about 575 yds last year at 5 gun in Princeton. I don't know what the actual distances are going to be for the rifle course.

 

[P0832177]

Well first off ditch the Federal Brass it will not lend itself towards long case life, but since it is free shoot it. You will not get as high of velocity with it.
Make sure that you get some good reloading manuals. The ABC's of Reloading is the Reloading version of Windows for Dummies. Get yourself a Deluxe Set of Reloading Dies with the carbide expander ball from John at the Gunstop.

You want to use Varget becaue it is a combo that can not miss. And, it is more temperature insensitive then other powders out there.

Chrono your loads and then run the numbers for your gun. So you are not guessing about your come ups from your zero.

Do not ever rely on the internet. You need two good reloading manuals on hand. Since you are new to reloading rifle carts. You should not deviate from published loads. The 308 is a very forgiving cartridge! But you must invest in your self. IE you could have typed in how many grains in a pound on a seach engine and got the answer.

 

[greg531mi]

...My experience shows that 1-2 grains under maximum usally gives the best accuracy. There are many good 308 powders out there. You just have to experiment on which powder/primer/case/bullet/and cartridge length combo that works best for your rifle.....
Most all commercial brass is great for reloading. They will last 5-8 reloadings. Do not hassle with military brass, too much time messing with primer pockets.
I hear that Winchester is the best, Federal, and Remington is junk, etc....But I have not had problems with either of these brands. PMC, PMP, Israeli, Speer, Hornady, all good brands. Norma, Lupua, great cases, big prices.... But get all the same brand and if possible, same lot....
Full length size them, with a small base sizer, if using RCBS or Lyman...., for first loading, then if using a bolt action, you can neck size, after first loading. Trim them to min length. Then, if you are anal enough, weigh them and sort. Also the bullets....
Next, get a long inert round, put marker on the bullet tip, and put in the chamber. Reduce the OAL till there is no rifling marks, then reduce .03 less for bullet variance...
Primers, Winchester is the hottest, CCI, the coolest, try them all with powder combo's. Powders, RL-15, Vargant, AA2520, AA4064, AA4895, Winchester 748,760 IMR 4895, 4064, 3031, VihtaVuori 540, 150...try these to start. Start at Starting loads, go up .5 grains, to max load. Take the marked rounds to the range, and start seeing what groups you are getting with what loads are the best. Try different bullet grips, light to heavy....

After all that, you might get a round that is better than factory ammo...

 

[308win]

You can't go wrong with 748. I have found it to give great accuracy with bullet weights from 110gr to 168gr.

 

[bogie]

This is not a race. Start at around 38.5-39 grains of 4895 (hey, it was good enough for Lake City...), and work up. You'll see some nodes where the groups tighten vertically. They're the best loads.

 

[wintermute76]

Sounds good guys. Wanted some hints and tips. Gonna run tomorrow to either Gunstop or Sportsmans Warehouse and pick up a few things. Needed some guidelines of what I need to look for. My buddy has a press and manuals, just haven't had a chance to talk to him yet

 

[P0832177]

Keep things simple. It is hard to ignore Varget!

 

[Mark whiz]

If you go with 4895 and 168gr MatchKings..................try 41 to 42gr of 4895. That has been the M14/M1As competition load forever!!! Personally, my M1A likes 42.6gr of 4895....................but 4895 is very forgiving so anywhere in that range should work well.

 

[halvey]

For WC846, use the same load data for BLC2 in commercial cases. Start 10% lower for military brass.

My load for WC846 was:
FL size
45.2 gr WC846
standard CCI primer
Remington brass
150 gr flatbase, (lead) soft nose
OAL 2.775
chrono'd 2650-2700

A guy I used to know loved 3031 in the .308 family. As long as you don't shoot it on super hot days, he said it is super accurate and clean.

FWIW.

 

[Mikul]

You've gotten some good tips. My recommendation for your class is to take factory ammunition. It takes time and some trial-and-error to work out all of the details of what work well for your rifle. You'd hate to spend all of the money and time for this class and have it go poorly beacuse you're having problems with your new reloads.

 

[Zak Smith]

Here's how I reload for my AI-AWP (308)--

#1. I use only either new brass, or brass fired in this gun. This avoids the problem of your F.L. die not quite really FL sizing brass that was previously shot in a rifle with a big chamber.

#2. I neck size only, with no expander ball, using a Redding Type S bushing die. I choose a bushing 0.003" or 0.002" smaller than the OD of the case mouth with a bullet seated.

#3. I measured the case OAL and trim down to 2.005" if any need it.

#4. I prime using Remington #9.5's or Federal 210M.

For the powder charge and bullet, you need to make some choices what you want to do. The 175SMK and 168SMK are both proven bullets, and it's hard to go wrong with either (understand than the 168 might go transsonic by 1000 yards though).

One advantage to the Hodgdon "Extreme" line of powders (which includes Varget) is that they are much less temperature sensitive vs. other powders. This is a good reason to just stick with them. I only shoot those or VV powders in my rifles.

With the 175SMK, 44.0gr Varget will work well in most guns, and you can probably pump it up until you see primer cupping, or lose accuracy.

With the 155SMK, I had great success with 46.5gr Varget, which still had pressure to spare.

For OAL, you can tune it if you want, but replicating the factory loads' OAL is a safe bet.

-z