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How to shoot a Kahr

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by bratch, Sep 21, 2005.

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  1. bratch

    bratch Member

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    I've got 2 Kahrs. A PM9 I picked up strictly for BUG/Pocket duty and K9 I got because it was a decent buy.

    I can't shoot either one. I've been shooting handguns about 11 months. My first pistol was a 1911 and I have quite abit of trigger time on them. I've became pretty proficient with my 1911s. I've also shot my CZ75 and BHP some but not as much as my 1911s.

    How do you shoot a Kahr?

    I really like these pistols but put rounds all over the paper. I've heard to shoot it like a DA revolver but I have no revolver experience so that doesn't help me any.
     
  2. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

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    DA shooting is hard to explain.
    Mostly, it's a matter of just practicing until you learn how to do it.

    Get a FIRM grip on the gun. Not so hard that your hand shakes from tension, but firm.

    The trick is, to "roll" the trigger with a smooth steady pull.
    Do not try to "stage" the trigger, no hesitating or jerking.

    You just smoothly pull the trigger until you get a "surprise break".

    Start out slow, and concentrate on smoothness of pull. Pull the trigger too fast when you're starting out, and you'll scatter shots.

    Also, remember, the Kahr is a small "people shooter" not a target gun, so the groups will usually be bigger than a single action auto.

    One thing you can do to help, is to buy a double action .22LR revolver. You can shoot a LOT more with the cheaper ammo, and this is how to really learn to shoot DA.
     
  3. bratch

    bratch Member

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    The DA 22 is a good idea.

    How would the P22 work as a DA trainer?

    I don't expect 1 hole groups but I'd like to keep everything in the X ring instead of everything on paper.

    Honestly my shooting drops off quite abit if I pick up something that isn't a 1911. I can shoot my fullsize or 4" about equally well then comes the BHP/CZ and even farther down are my Kahrs.
     
  4. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I don't know about dfariswheel's classification of the Kahr as a "people shooter," but the other information seems spot on with my Kahr experience.

    One of the really nice aspects of Kahr pistols is that even though they are double action only, the trigger pull is or feels uniform throughout the pull until the break occurs. Many DAO for first shot DA guns have triggers with variable pull amounts throughout the pull. Some get harder to pull, some gradually and some towards the end of the pull. A few start off with a heavier pull that seems to lighten as you approach the break. When the pulls are variable, it is harder to learn proper pull technique. My Colt Pony is terrible in this regard. The majority of the pull is something like 10 lbs and then jumps to 13 in the last 1/8" of travel before the trigger breaks. That sudden increase causes me to pull harder and pull the gun off target slightly.

    I don't like DAO triggers. However, between my Pony and PM9, I can shoot the PM9 as accurately as the Pony, but at 3 times the distance.

    bratch, you say your shots are all over the paper with the Kahr. At what distance are you shooting? Don't expect to get groups any smaller than 2-4" at 15 yards, but your Kahrs should be capable of groups in that size range.
     
  5. Mixlesplick

    Mixlesplick Member

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    I grip my K40 as high as I possibly can. I also put a little piece of 3M grip tape on the front strap. Mostly what helps me is gripping it very high. Some of the skin in the web between thumb and index finger bulges up above the grip because I grip it so high. Don't let it get so high that you get bitten by the slide though. The sights are more steady now and my groups have gotten better since I started doing this.
     
  6. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Please take this with a grain of salt since my K9 is still relatively new to me, so I've had limited experience with it. But i truly love it compared to what i traded for it. (That too, was a fine gun, but just didn't fit my hand. The K9 does.)

    But even with my so far limited experience, I think Faris, Double Naught & Mix offer great advice; all their suggestions are what I've used so far with the K9:

    Smooth, steady pull, grip up high enough to make the skin between thumb & finger "bunch up", but not so high as to be uncomfortable, tight grip but not so tight as to shake.

    (Actually, with respect to that last point, I recently read some thread on THR that suggested this, and only partly tongue-in-cheek: grip so hard as to shake so that you experience shooting while shaking since you're going to be shaking anyway when crack-crazed BG comes at you with a {machete, rebar, shovel, whatever}, so you may as well practice now. Point taken.)

    I don't get 4" groups at 7 yds, let alone 15. But it's OK. I get 6" groups, which includes the region of thorax that includes heart and lungs. I can double tap with it nicely.

    And that's with less than 300 rounds so far.

    I feel great about this K9. I can't say enough good things about it. Once I shoot a few 100 more rounds, I'll feel even better. Practice, practice, practice. BA/UU/R. {Hey, I've got tomorrow off. May be time to hit the range...}

    The only thing I add is this: make sure the gun fits you. If the 1911 works for you, if it fits really well, then could it be that the Kahr is too small?

    As I understand it, with a good fit, the trigger should hit that first crease in your finger, or the second section just past the crease. If not, it may not be the right gun for you (too small, maybe?), which could cause you to pull to one side because you're not able to pull the trigger straight back.
     
  7. mete

    mete Member

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    Kahrs have a very nice DAO trigger about 7-8 lbs .But this is a very different trigger than the 1911. Pull the trigger back smoothly without hesitation. It will take practice and it's not designed as a target pistol.
     
  8. Steelharp

    Steelharp Member

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    Put it out in your target area, and shoot it with another "guhn"... preferably a scoped rifle... :D

    Sorry, just not a Kahr fan...
     
  9. halvey

    halvey Member

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    Sell the Kahr and buy a 1911.

    Or better yet, trade for it. ;)
     
  10. bratch

    bratch Member

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    I've actually looked into trading it for another 1911 I contacted a member on here about a Springfield Loaded but I'm thinking about keeping the K9 mainly for its nice size and I can get some good Kahr practice without beating up on my little PM9.

    I'm all over the paper at 5-7 yards with the K9. No real resemblence of a group I'll have two shots touching in the 9 ring then 1 in each shoulder and 1 in the pelvis. I can shoot the PM9 better but not as good as I would like. To put it in perspective the day I had such problems with the K9 I shot the same target with my TLE and had 5 shots I could almost cover with a half dollar.

    I've been seriously debating giving the Kahrs up due to my lack of ability with them but I don't think I can find anything to replace the PM9 as my pocket gun.

    They feel nice in my little fat hands so I don't know if its bad ergos or not.

    Next range trip I'll make a conscience effort to listen to the advice.
     
  11. esskay

    esskay Member

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    I recently bought a used P9, took it to the range last month and that thing is a SHOOTER! The twist though... the gun had been worked on by Yost so it most certainly is not stock. So I guess I'm in the minority here!
     
  12. Jiml3

    Jiml3 Member

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    One method of practice that I have found very helpful in learning trigger control is, Place a quarter flat side up behinf the front sight. Point it at a spot on the wall and practice pulling the trigger without the quarter falling off. It takes time
    but it works. Now that I am used to the dao trigger, I am very happy.

    Before anybody else picks up on this, before practicing make sure the gun is unloaded!!!!
     
  13. at-home-daddy

    at-home-daddy Member

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    "...but I'm thinking about keeping the K9 mainly for its nice size and I can get some good Kahr practice without beating up on my little PM9."
    I'd get rid of the the K9 -- and buy another 1911 -- and practice with the gun you're actually going to be carrying, the PM9. Rounds put through it won't "beat it up"...it'll smooth out the trigger and action and make you more comfortable and proficient with it -- shooting the K9 (even though its trigger pull is doubtlessly similar) will do neither.
     
  14. bubbygator

    bubbygator Member

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    Jiml3 is right; it's not about finger control, it's about hand (sight picture) control. Try some exercise to strengthen your wrist. If you get control of that, you'll get a consistent pattern - that you can then work on to get onto the bullseye.

    That being said, I've heard that some have added a small pad to the back of the grip to very slightly increase the length of pull for a Kahr... changing the dynamics of the trigger finger muscle to more "straight-back".
     
  15. pauli

    pauli Member

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    poorly.

    safety on. pull trigger. safety off. pull trigger. for each shot.

    did i mention the part where this will wear out the flimsy safety?

    or you could practice your holywood decock, and hope you don't get thrown off the range for shooting the floor and ceiling more than the backstop ;)
     
  16. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I had tried it with the quarter balanced and the curved side up and tried it with the flat side down. I don't know why I never tried flat side up. I bet it will be much easier than curved side up.

    Actually bubbygator, finger control can be a real issue with DAO triggers even with good hand control and wrist lock.
     
  17. Lou22

    Lou22 Member

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    I've probably put about 600 rounds through my PM9 but about the best I can do is put most shots in a 6" circle at 21 feet. Adequate for self-defense. I suppose more practice would tighten that up.

    BTW, my PM9 definitely shoots tighter groups with most Remington over Winchester. Both Express and UMC 124gr shot identically well.

    Lou
     
  18. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    The PM9 is ridiculously accurate for a pocket pistol, so don’t give up.

    Somewhere—probably here—I read the advice to shoot Kahr pistols “like double-action revolvers” with the trigger under the first knuckle joint. I’ve tried this, compared to a trigger press with the pad of my fingertip, and the results were interesting.

    At short range, accuracy was about the same for both shooting styles, but my groups tended to open up more at longer ranges using the revolver-style trigger pull. However, revolver-style shooting does seem to allow a more positive grip on the smaller pistols (MK9, PM9, etc.).

    Maybe I should add that I don’t use super-high-pressure ammunition.

    ~G. Fink
     
  19. Onslaught

    Onslaught Member

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    No matter how much I'm "anti-Kahr" these days, I will admit that the Kahrs I've owned were all EXTREMELY accurate pistols. My Kahr P40 could hang with my USP45, which is a BIG accomplishment.

    I would suggest a LOT of dry fire practice... Aim at a target, and try to pull the trigger slowly while keeping the sights on the target throughout the entire trigger pull.

    DARN-IT if I haven't STILL considered another P40 after all my polymer Kahr troubles.
     
  20. AStone

    AStone Member

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    You too, huh?

    Just before buying my K9, I did a lot of reading on THR about the P9's. That was actually my first choice; I looked at it first, liked the weight, etc. But after reading too many stories about pp's (polymer problems), I went with the K9. Heavier, but I'm actually glad for the weight. Helps with recoil, allows a faster double tap. And, from what I'm reading, a LOT less prone to problems.

    Good idea also about the dry fire practice.

    N~
     
  21. albanian

    albanian member

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    "How do you shoot a Kahr?'

    Practice.

    Not being a smartass but there is no way around practice. There is a bit of a learning curve with the kahr trigger if you are only used to SA. There is also a bit of a learning curve shooting smaller pistols. When I got my first Kahr K-9, I was not impressed with the accuracy but I found that I got much better after some parctice and getting to know the trigger. Buy a couple of cases of 9mm and spend the next 6-12 months shooting it and you will get good with it.

    I now can shoot my K-9s as well as many of my full sized duty semi-autos. The Kahr is worth the effort to get good with it. It is a amazing pistol. I consider it one of the best autos ever made and the very best 9mm single stack ever made.
     
  22. 9teen11

    9teen11 Member

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    I love Kahr guns; I own 2. I have an Elite 98 with night sites in 9mm and .40. Excellent guns, excellent triggers.
     
  23. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom member

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    I'm just impressed at how many handguns you've managed to accumulate after less than 1 year of shooting them!

    I have a Kahr, and it's not making one-hole groups at 7 yards by any stretch, but I don't worry about it much as it is a carry gun not a target or hunting gun. Kahrs are easier to shoot well than a true double action, like that Mil Pro I had or a revolver, that's for sure. Practice, practice, practice. :)
     
  24. Steelharp

    Steelharp Member

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    Please don't misunderstand; I'm not trying to be snide or anything, but:

    I know I'm just a youngster at this stuff (not by age, I assure you), but shouldn't it be most important that your carry gun be the one you are most accurate with? I mean, it seems to me that if paper is difficult at 7 yards, how's it going to be with a moving, ducking, shooting-back-at-you target? I would want to minimize the possibility of hitting store clerks, gas pumps, cars, innocent men, women, children, etc., whatever might be past my attacker by having my best shooter in my hand.

    Educate me, please... that's what I love about this place.
     
  25. bratch

    bratch Member

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    Since October 13 of 2004 my handgun collection has exploded. Went from 0 to my current collection. I currently have a Kimber TLE II, Kimber Aluminum Compact, CZ75, BHP, Kahr PM9, and Kahr K9. I guess that works out to about 1 every 2 months.

    Not real sure why I have them all and I probably could have used the money more wisely but hell your only young once.
     
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