I'm about to buy a pump shotgun for general hunting use. I like the feel of a 20ga, and I'm leaning towards making that my decision over the 12. I won't be using it for trap or skeet. How much capability am I giving up? Should I go with the 12ga even though I like carrying the 20 and feel more comfortable with it? I'm looking at a BPS.
Hunting Shotgun: 12 vs 20
- Thread starter whalerman
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DaleCooper51
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At 7 lbs, the BPS is heavy for a 20 ga pump gun. They are nice guns. If it fits you and the price is right get it. Short of goose hunting, the 20 will get the job done as long as you do your part.
I have a 20ga Wingmaster and it is great to tote in the fields.
Other then lots of walking, I prefer shooting light loads out of my 12ga semi auto.
I have a 20ga Wingmaster and it is great to tote in the fields.
Other then lots of walking, I prefer shooting light loads out of my 12ga semi auto.
oneounceload
member
What does "general hunting" mean to you? If it includes waterfowl, then you are giving up something. If it means upland birds, rabbits and squirrels, than you have given up nothing.
If you want to carry 7 pounds, get a 12; otherwise a decent 20 should be in the 6# range
If you want to carry 7 pounds, get a 12; otherwise a decent 20 should be in the 6# range
On upland birds and small game the 20 will be fine. If your choice of gun has a 3 inch chamber you can shoot 3 inch shells, which should equal the shot load of a standard 12. I have read that the 3 inch 20 does not patttern as well as a 12, but they do work. 20s are lighter and handier to carry.
Having said all that, I usually shoot a 12, but there is no good reason why. When I do hunt with a 20 I have never regretted it.
By the way, the BPS (I have had both the 12 and 20) is a bit heavy but a very nice shotgun. The safety on top and the bottom ejection are nice features.
Having said all that, I usually shoot a 12, but there is no good reason why. When I do hunt with a 20 I have never regretted it.
By the way, the BPS (I have had both the 12 and 20) is a bit heavy but a very nice shotgun. The safety on top and the bottom ejection are nice features.
lizziedog1
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Go for a 10 Gauge. Then you give up nothing.
MCgunner
Member
I've yet to find a 20 gauge 3" that patterns well enough for ME to use it on ducks in preference to my 12s. Can be done, but I do better with my 12s. I used to shoot high brass 20 gauge number 5 lead 2 3/4" on ducks from a 20 gauge Wingmaster and it was deadly as a 12, but those days are now past. Steel is the law, unfortunately, and hevi shot is not an option for me because of cost. If you're not shooting steel shot, upland birds and such, and don't wish to shoot waterfowl, the 20 is fine. I like mine for dove hunting, kill just as many as with anything else and over a tank, the light weight and fast handling is appreciated. That thing comes to the shoulder FAST. It's a light, short double, not a pump, but pump 20s are lighter than 12s, generally. Your shoulder will appreciate the 20 on hot and heavy dove hunts, too. With a 15 bird limit per day down here, you can burn through some ammo in a few days. The BPS might not be the lightest shotgun in the world, but as pumps go, it's a dandy. I love the action on those things and the ergos.
With a 15 bird limit per day down here, you can burn through some ammo in a few days. The BPS might not be the lightest shotgun in the world, but as pumps go, it's a dandy. I love the action on those things and the ergos.I've found that a 12 gauge gas gun doesn't kick much harder than a 20 gauge pump but that it is a lot more versatile. I still have my 3.5" 12 gauge pump for geese and turkey but I use my 12 gauge gas gun for most everything else. My 20 gauge over/under I got for skeet ends up not getting used much.
Oh yeah, I have a 3" 20 gauge bolt action slug gun for deer, but that is a whole 'nother story.
Oh yeah, I have a 3" 20 gauge bolt action slug gun for deer, but that is a whole 'nother story.
John Peddie
Member
I have a BPS 20 which I use for "everything" including ducks and geese over decoys. 30 yards max.
I've never felt undergunned.
2 cautions
-BPS is relatively heavy gauge for gauge
-PITA to disassemble for cleaning. Can be done, but...
My 12s generally get aired out once a year. Otherwise, it's the BPS 20.
I've never felt undergunned.
2 cautions
-BPS is relatively heavy gauge for gauge
-PITA to disassemble for cleaning. Can be done, but...
My 12s generally get aired out once a year. Otherwise, it's the BPS 20.
451 Detonics
Member
Actually I use a 16 gauge for almost all my upland hunting, a 26 inch Winchester Model 24 chocked IC/Mod. Like many 16's it was built on a 20ga frame so I have the best of both the 20 and the 12 gauge guns.
Tim the student
Member
If you are thinking about deer, a 20 will serve just fine there too.
MCgunner
Member
It's a rare day that a Texas snow goose will decoy that well. 60 yard shots are commonly the best you get on clear days if you get a shot at all. They get real decoy shy late season, adding to the problem. So, I hunt with a 10 gauge 3.5" steel T shot on geese. I don't regret this at all because it patterns over 90 percent 40 yards, 30" circle. It's the tightest patterning gun I've ever fired on a pattern board. My 20 SUCKS on the pattern board with 3" anything I've tried. Canada geese must be stupid. We don't get many down here, mostly snows and specs. Speckle bellies are dumber than snows, can often work them even with a snow goose call. We hunt mostly over Texas rags, not full bodies, but I've hunted full bodies and they don't work THAT well on snows, anyway. Our snows are college educated by the time they get down here.
Ten four on the gas gun. Mine's 2 3/4" only, but that's really all that's necessary since I have the 10 for geese. 2 3/4" Winchester hi speed 3 steel or 2 steel is deadly on ANY ducks. This gun makes a fantastic dove gun on those days when they're high and fast, too. I could and did live without a 20, but I like the 20, ain't gonna sell it. Shot some dove with it just 2 days ago and the season ain't over here.
RhinoDefense
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The difference between the gauges comes down to pattern density. Choke will spread about the same pattern per yard at a distance. With a 12ga you get more shot per shell than you would get in a 20ga, meaning more pellets and a denser pattern. More pellets in the same area equals more hits in your pattern. That's it.
All the gauges propel the same velocity range, from 1200 to 1400fps. It's really how much shot is traveling that velocity and how that matters practically.
All the gauges propel the same velocity range, from 1200 to 1400fps. It's really how much shot is traveling that velocity and how that matters practically.
MCgunner
Member
Well, in 2 3/4" 20 gauge, I usually shoot 7/8 ounce, but can get 1 ounce loads if I want to. 12 2 3/4" loads I use 1 ounce...this is on doves. Lots of crossover in shot charge weight considering the difference in bore diameter though the 12 can handle 1 1/4 ounce loads and even heavier in some heavy lead loads. But then there's the fact that 20 gauge 3" just doesn't seem to pattern for squat. Some say it's the length of the shell vs the bore diameter. I don't know, but I do know I've patterned several steel loads in 3" and can't get find one I can get excited about.
Also, the new fasteel loads by Kent or Winchester hi speed shoots faster than others by reducing the shot weight. This is a GOOD tradeoff in my experience as it gives that shot the pop it needs out at 40 yards where the same steel at lover velocities would be falling short on energy. I used to shoot 12 gauge 3" steel 2s or 1s on ducks, couldn't find a 2 3/4" I liked. Fasteel ended that. Now, 2 3/4" is all I need 50 yards and in on any duck shooting 3 or 2 steel. It's easier on my shoulder, too, especially if I take the gas gun.
Steel is another world from traditional lead, though.
Also, the new fasteel loads by Kent or Winchester hi speed shoots faster than others by reducing the shot weight. This is a GOOD tradeoff in my experience as it gives that shot the pop it needs out at 40 yards where the same steel at lover velocities would be falling short on energy. I used to shoot 12 gauge 3" steel 2s or 1s on ducks, couldn't find a 2 3/4" I liked. Fasteel ended that. Now, 2 3/4" is all I need 50 yards and in on any duck shooting 3 or 2 steel. It's easier on my shoulder, too, especially if I take the gas gun.
Steel is another world from traditional lead, though.
RhinoDefense
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Sure you can play around with shot charge and velocity a bit. Fact remains you're looking at a ~200fps window.
lizziedog1
Member
I prefer the smaller gauges. I am not the best wingshooter. I have to shoot early and shoot often. Smaller shotguns tend to be easier on game shot close.
HAHA. True, but most people like to at least eat what they shot.Go for a 10 Gauge. Then you give up nothing.
A 20 will work, but I see no advantages over a 12. You can easily buy sub 7 lb 12 ga. shotguns if you want a light gun to carry and by choosing your ammo correctly can duplicate 20 ga performance and recoil. 12 ga. ammo is everywhere, with more load options and often priced cheaper.
While a 20 can be made to do many of the tasks done with a 12, there will be times that you come up short and need the extra load capacity offered by the 12.
In short you can make a 12 do anything a 20 will do with equal gun weight and recoil, you can't make a 20 perform like a 12.
While a 20 can be made to do many of the tasks done with a 12, there will be times that you come up short and need the extra load capacity offered by the 12.
In short you can make a 12 do anything a 20 will do with equal gun weight and recoil, you can't make a 20 perform like a 12.
MCgunner
Member
Super, great gun!
That's the theory, but not practice. I find 20 even in my light coach gun, lighter kicking than an equivalent shot load in 12 except for my gas gun, but that's not fair. I could have a gas gun in 20 that would be really sweet, some day. I suspect it's the powder charge as powder charge enters the recoil calculation and 12 uses more dram equivalents per shot charge (larger bore). It's the only explanation I can come up with for my observations, anyway. 12 ain't too heavy for me in a heavier gun, but my SxS 12 is a beoch on a good dove hunt and it's a good fitting gun, too. I've retired it for the gas gun and my SxS 20. IMHO only real advantage in the 12 is versatility in the gun, ability with steel shot the 20 doesn't match up to. If you ain't gonna shoot ducks and geese, 20 will do anything the 12 will and be easier on the shoulder.
That's the theory, but not practice. I find 20 even in my light coach gun, lighter kicking than an equivalent shot load in 12 except for my gas gun, but that's not fair. I could have a gas gun in 20 that would be really sweet, some day.
I suspect it's the powder charge as powder charge enters the recoil calculation and 12 uses more dram equivalents per shot charge (larger bore). It's the only explanation I can come up with for my observations, anyway. 12 ain't too heavy for me in a heavier gun, but my SxS 12 is a beoch on a good dove hunt and it's a good fitting gun, too. I've retired it for the gas gun and my SxS 20. IMHO only real advantage in the 12 is versatility in the gun, ability with steel shot the 20 doesn't match up to. If you ain't gonna shoot ducks and geese, 20 will do anything the 12 will and be easier on the shoulder.RhinoDefense
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I've used a 20ga 3 inch steel #2 load to take geese and other waterfowl reliably. I don't see where a 12ga would perform better.
lizziedog1
Member
It is a numbers game. A 12 gauge has magical qualities to it, sort of like 30-06 rifles and 357 magnum revolvers. Ignore ballistics and science, certain numbers etched onto a gun or ammo box makes all the difference.
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