igousigloo
Member
Pick up rifle, elbow down, place rifle in shoulder horizontal with ground. Rotate rifle and shoulder 90 degrees. Drill instructor jump up and down on barrel to see if it is solid.
I know how to hold my rifle, thank you...
- Thread starter morcey2
- Start date
- Status
OP
OP
morcey2
Member
henschman
Member
I use the more squared stance with the support hand farther forward for close quarters, moving and shooting, and snap shots. It lets you move easier and lets you muscle the barrel onto target quicker.
When the situation calls for a little more precision, such as a smaller or more distant target, I do things very differently. A good precision stance is about the opposite of a close quarters/dynamic stance. The main difference is that instead of muscling the rifle onto target, you want to get as muscle-neutral as possible and turn your body into a platform. Well first off for precision I don't use the standing position unless I have to, but sometimes because of obstructions or whatnot, it is all you can use. So for a good precision standing position I have my support hand open and relaxed with my elbow under the rifle, use a sling for support if I have one, along with any available solid support like a tree or a corner or a door frame, I take a very "bladed" stance with my feet facing almost 90 degrees away from the target, crane my neck as far forward as it will go and plant my cheek on the stock, and chicken wing my elbow. With the "chicken wing" hold it is especially easy to drag wood, so make sure your finger doesn't rub on the stock of the rifle. It imparts unnecessary motion.
I think a well-rounded shooter ought to know both the close quarters techniques and the precision techniques, and should be able to switch between them as the situation requires. It's not an either-or proposition. They both have their place. The problem is that most guys only study one discipline, and then think that is the only "right" way to do things.
When the situation calls for a little more precision, such as a smaller or more distant target, I do things very differently. A good precision stance is about the opposite of a close quarters/dynamic stance. The main difference is that instead of muscling the rifle onto target, you want to get as muscle-neutral as possible and turn your body into a platform. Well first off for precision I don't use the standing position unless I have to, but sometimes because of obstructions or whatnot, it is all you can use. So for a good precision standing position I have my support hand open and relaxed with my elbow under the rifle, use a sling for support if I have one, along with any available solid support like a tree or a corner or a door frame, I take a very "bladed" stance with my feet facing almost 90 degrees away from the target, crane my neck as far forward as it will go and plant my cheek on the stock, and chicken wing my elbow. With the "chicken wing" hold it is especially easy to drag wood, so make sure your finger doesn't rub on the stock of the rifle. It imparts unnecessary motion.
I think a well-rounded shooter ought to know both the close quarters techniques and the precision techniques, and should be able to switch between them as the situation requires. It's not an either-or proposition. They both have their place. The problem is that most guys only study one discipline, and then think that is the only "right" way to do things.
I refuse to buy anything that is marketed with the word "tactical" in the name, now. Unless it's the ONLY thing that is available of that "type". Was shopping for a rifle bag w/ mag pouches.
Anything that has magazine pockets is suddenly, somehow, mysteriously and mystically turned in to a "tactical package!"
Anyway, I digress.
Some of my weapons shoot in the pocket with my elbow up (bolt actions, shotguns, muzzleloaders), SKS, G3.
Some weapons, I shoot offset on the chest because the sights line up better (SCAR, FS2000, PS90, AR w/ Eotech).
Do what works and feels good for you.
If someone nitpicks you over something so abysmally asinine, screw'em.
Anything that has magazine pockets is suddenly, somehow, mysteriously and mystically turned in to a "tactical package!"
Anyway, I digress.
Some of my weapons shoot in the pocket with my elbow up (bolt actions, shotguns, muzzleloaders), SKS, G3.
Some weapons, I shoot offset on the chest because the sights line up better (SCAR, FS2000, PS90, AR w/ Eotech).
Do what works and feels good for you.
If someone nitpicks you over something so abysmally asinine, screw'em.
Besides, you can control even a fire-hose full auto G3 or AK47 quite effectively with a conventional chicken-wing stance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xC7Wokz36I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5EcyksD2I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xC7Wokz36I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5EcyksD2I
Shooters who provide unsolicited advice of "you need to do it the new way" annoy me about as much as shooters who steadfastly protest "only the old way is right". That is to say there is right and wrong, and some middle ground, in shooting techniques that vary by firearm and situation.
During my short stent in the MarCorps the known distance shooting stances changed 3 times. Then, when field firing, everyone was told to use completely different stances. Semper Gumby!
During my short stent in the MarCorps the known distance shooting stances changed 3 times. Then, when field firing, everyone was told to use completely different stances. Semper Gumby!
Last edited:
Zerodefect
member
Note that the squared up stance is not just for catching bullets with your plate carrier (great plan that is!), it also for your ability to react to targets that popup on your flanks. You can't get the same mobility or range of motion in the olde Weaver stance. (If applicable, obviously it deosn't matter how you plink)
Oh and..........
Oh and..........
Last edited by a moderator:
Zerodefect
member
I agree.
But we could say " You need to try this way." I like to try, and teach all the techniques. Shooters can decide what works best for them on thier own.
Red October
Member
If you: A) had fun, and B) hit the target, then I'd say it's all good.
(I listed 'fun' first since the OP indicated target shooting rather than hunting.)
(I listed 'fun' first since the OP indicated target shooting rather than hunting.)
Zerodefect
member
Dude, absolutely nothing wrong with that stance with that gun. Nothing. Thats how i hold my mauser.
This is how i hold my AR.
I can't hit nothing at 300+ with a hold like that! My barrel just shakes all over the place. But it is comfortable. I'm a little concerned about Kabooms as well. When an AR KB's the mag splits into confetti.
I have to put my support arm out pretty much where your front sight is. Which is why I need to chop my carbine and put a 13" rail on it, so I can stretch out. I just built a rifle with a 14" rail so I can really blade and stretch out, get as much leverage to hold it still, as I can. But my style sure wears out my shoulders/back.
OP
OP
morcey2
Member
I went toy shopping yesterday at lunch. Ok, it was just window shopping, but it was fun. One of the good-guy pawn shops here had a couple of AR's on the rack so I was trying them out. I plan on buying one eventually for varmint hunting mostly. They had a nice 20" heavy barrel with a 223 wylde chamber (1:7" twist, I think. not sure) that is pretty close to what I'm looking for. Ignoring the fact that the heavy barrel makes it a very poor choice for close-in tactical work, I definitely found that the tight-in stance was much more comfortable with true pistol grip.
With the 1916 Spanish Mauser that was there, it was actually painful to try to hold it in even a half chicken wing stance. Again, that is probably more due to my own physical limitation from the lack of rotation of my arm than anything else.
As a side note, my neighbor across the street is a police officer and on the SWAT team for both that city and the county. We're very good friends and he was over on Sunday shooting the breeze and we got talking about guns. He has an M4 in his cruiser along with an 870 of some sort, but he really likes old guns like me. I pulled out the 1903, a couple of mosins, and the VZ24.
He asks me to show him how the tangent sight on the VZ works.
That should have set off alarm bells, but I was too preoccupied. I know that he already knows how it works. I start showing him, and mount the gun. First thing out of his mouth?
"Your stance is all wrong. You should never have a chicken wing with a rifle."
I can feel my face getting red, and then I notice that my 16 year old son is having trouble keeping his composure. I was setup! :banghead:
Michael (the 16 year old) is now grounded until he's 23. Everyone got a good laugh out of it. We did have a good conversation on proper stance though. He's a very good shot and when he's shooting offhand with any non-AR-ish rifle, his chicken wing makes mine look just plain mild.
One of the earlier comments about shotguns made me stop and think also. My elbow is about half down when I'm shooting them. My son pointed that out also.
And so everyone knows, we hit what we were shooting at (generally), I found out that the VZ24 needed a new firing pin spring to ignite the Yugo surplus, my 14-year old daughter really likes my 7mm mexican mauser sporter and is a really good shot with it, you can never have too many clay pigeons, and marlin model 60's don't like dirty remington bulk ammo. I also learned that my C-Stocked 1903 is a MOA-ish rifle when shot by someone who can shoot that well.
Maybe it was too much caffeine making me shaky.
Matt
With the 1916 Spanish Mauser that was there, it was actually painful to try to hold it in even a half chicken wing stance. Again, that is probably more due to my own physical limitation from the lack of rotation of my arm than anything else.
As a side note, my neighbor across the street is a police officer and on the SWAT team for both that city and the county. We're very good friends and he was over on Sunday shooting the breeze and we got talking about guns. He has an M4 in his cruiser along with an 870 of some sort, but he really likes old guns like me. I pulled out the 1903, a couple of mosins, and the VZ24.
He asks me to show him how the tangent sight on the VZ works.
That should have set off alarm bells, but I was too preoccupied. I know that he already knows how it works. I start showing him, and mount the gun. First thing out of his mouth?
"Your stance is all wrong. You should never have a chicken wing with a rifle."
I can feel my face getting red, and then I notice that my 16 year old son is having trouble keeping his composure. I was setup! :banghead:
Michael (the 16 year old) is now grounded until he's 23. Everyone got a good laugh out of it. We did have a good conversation on proper stance though. He's a very good shot and when he's shooting offhand with any non-AR-ish rifle, his chicken wing makes mine look just plain mild. One of the earlier comments about shotguns made me stop and think also. My elbow is about half down when I'm shooting them. My son pointed that out also.
And so everyone knows, we hit what we were shooting at (generally), I found out that the VZ24 needed a new firing pin spring to ignite the Yugo surplus, my 14-year old daughter really likes my 7mm mexican mauser sporter and is a really good shot with it, you can never have too many clay pigeons, and marlin model 60's don't like dirty remington bulk ammo. I also learned that my C-Stocked 1903 is a MOA-ish rifle when shot by someone who can shoot that well.
Maybe it was too much caffeine making me shaky.Matt
Morcey2, 223 Wylde chamber is designed to be fed 80 grain bullets loaded longer than standard OAL, which do not fit in the magazine. Will shoot standard length ammo fine as well, but the "lands" are pushed back a bit since 80 grain loadings are so ridiculously long.
- Status
