Spent 3 days looking and calling cant find an ounce of blue dot. I load 455 webley 455 colt and 38 S&W wanted to use blue dot in both because its an almost case capacity loading for all of the above. So I need a replacement I prefer a "fluffy" low density slow burning powder. Any suggestions?
I need a suggestion for Blue dot replacement
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Beanie-Bean
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AA #9, VV N350 come to mind. If you're needing volume, I think the #9 will be the one to go with for your loads.
I like Blue Dot for my .357SIG and 10mm loads, and haven't seen any available in a long time. Same goes for #9. the N350 was available in 1lb an 4lb jugs recently, but those sold out pretty quickly.
Be sure to check the "Where are there components for sale?" thread, as there have been some good news passed along in that one. I know I've scored quite a few primers (when they were scarce,) bullets (when they were also scarce,) as well as some pistol and rifle powder.
I like Blue Dot for my .357SIG and 10mm loads, and haven't seen any available in a long time. Same goes for #9. the N350 was available in 1lb an 4lb jugs recently, but those sold out pretty quickly.
Be sure to check the "Where are there components for sale?" thread, as there have been some good news passed along in that one. I know I've scored quite a few primers (when they were scarce,) bullets (when they were also scarce,) as well as some pistol and rifle powder.
Based on my testing, Blue Dot is inappropriate in low pressure cartridges. The first example is a 45 LC and the second is a 38 Special. Compare the extreme velocity spreads between Bullseye and Unique and that of Blue Dot.
Code:
[SIZE="3"][B] 5 1/2" USFA Rodeo 45 LC[/B]
250 LRN (.452") 8.5 grs Unique thrown, R-P cases, CCI300 primers
12-May-02 T = 80°F
Ave Vel = 855
Std Dev = 16
ES 59.91
High 885.4
Low 825.5
Number Shots 12
250 LRN (.452") 11.5 grs Blue Dot R-P cases, WLP
11-Sep-05 T = 85 °F shoots close to point of aim acceptable accuracy
Ave Vel = 845
Std Dev = 48
ES 183.6
High 933.3
Low 749.7
N = 18
250 LRN (.452") 12.0 grs Blue Dot R-P cases, WLP
11-Sep-05 T = 85 °F shoots close to point of aim good accuracy
Ave Vel = 904
Std Dev = 44
ES 149.6
High 955.2
Low 806
N = 15 [/SIZE]
Code:
[SIZE="3"] [B]4" S&W M10-5 38 Special[/B]
125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 59 °F Elevation at least 4" low Windage centered accurate
Ave Vel = 863.4
Std Dev = 30
ES 70.78
High 907.5
Low 836.7
N = 6
125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 64 °F Elevation at least 4" low Windage centered accurate
Ave Vel = 945.6
Std Dev = 27.28
ES 75.21
High 995.2
Low 920
N = 6
125 Valiant BBRNFP 6.5 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 64 °F Elevation Point of aim Windage centered accurate
Ave Vel = 734
Std Dev = 63.53
ES 260
High 829.6
Low 569.5
N = 18
125 Valiant BBRNFP 7.0 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 64 °F Elevation Point of aim Windage centered accurate
Ave Vel = 788.2
Std Dev = 63.3
ES 241.3
High 926.7
Low 685.3
N = 12
125 Valiant BBRNFP 7.5 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP
22-Apr-06 T = 68 °F Elevation low poor accuracy
Ave Vel = 867.3
Std Dev = 53.06
ES 235.6
High 959.7
Low 724.1
N = 25
125 Valiant BBRNFP 8.0 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP
22-Apr-06 T = 68 °F Elevation all over the place very poor accuracy loud at times
Ave Vel = 990.2
Std Dev = 56.55
ES 236.1
High 1093
Low 857.5
N = 25 [/SIZE]The huge ES's I got with Blue Dot indicates that this powder does not burn well at low pressures and is not appropriate for these cartridges. I don't trust it, I want as low of ES's spreads as that tells me I have consistent pressure waves.
If you want something bulky but slow, try Trailboss.
Thanks for the info slamfire I have lots of load data for blue dot for these 2 rounds, also Duelist did a vid on youtube and he got consistent velocities and accuracy. Further more in the book Pet loads the data there seems to support consistency. Perhaps it is because of the shorter case and lesser charge of 6 gr. I looked into Trail Boss but found some information that indicated that would be inappropriate for these cartridges. I will look into the VV and AA.
Jesse Heywood
Member
There should be nothing wrong with Trail Boss in those cartridges. It was designed for cowboy action shooting. I had good results with Trail Boss in 455 and 38 special.
You don't have to have a case filling powder for either. My recommended powders would be Bullseye, W231, 700-X, Red Dot, Trail Boss and Unique. The faster burning powders do the best with lead in the lower pressure cartridges.
You don't have to have a case filling powder for either. My recommended powders would be Bullseye, W231, 700-X, Red Dot, Trail Boss and Unique. The faster burning powders do the best with lead in the lower pressure cartridges.
1KPerDay
Member
What info indicated trail boss would be inappropriate ? It's ideal for your purposes IMO.
I did a interweb search and found an article compairing the two. Said trail boss burns faster than Blue dot therefore raising pressure with no gain of velocity. I will try to find the article and post it here.
http://cartridgeloaders.com/article/Trail Boss and 455 Webley Mk I.html
that info came from another forum.
On the other hand I just called IMR and spoke with a very pleasant fellow he gave me specific instructions for working up a load. In short it works like this, prime a case size and flare seat bullet then mark the bullet at the edge of the case mouth. Pull the bullet measure bullet from the mark to the base of the bullet to find the depth. Make the inside of the case at that measurement. Fill the case to that mark with trail boss then weigh the powder that's the max charge. subtract 30% and that's the starting load. Said to keep very specific notes on bullet design brand and weight as well as case information.
http://cartridgeloaders.com/article/Trail Boss and 455 Webley Mk I.html
that info came from another forum.
On the other hand I just called IMR and spoke with a very pleasant fellow he gave me specific instructions for working up a load. In short it works like this, prime a case size and flare seat bullet then mark the bullet at the edge of the case mouth. Pull the bullet measure bullet from the mark to the base of the bullet to find the depth. Make the inside of the case at that measurement. Fill the case to that mark with trail boss then weigh the powder that's the max charge. subtract 30% and that's the starting load. Said to keep very specific notes on bullet design brand and weight as well as case information.
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Jesse Heywood
Member
Buying TB is a good move. Without published data Hodgdon says to measure the powder capacity of your case (with the bullet seated). Take 70% of that as your starting charge. The filled, but not compressed, case is the max. By design, TB will not go overpressure when used under these conditions with lead. However, do not compress, pressure spikes can occur. Read the pdf here. There is one line that says: This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications.
My loads with TB and 250 gr SWC are all under 5.0 grains in 455. In 38 spl with 148 gr WC it looks like around 2.5 gr, but I need to get back to testing.
As for less-filling loads, basic reloading practices must be followed. Visually inspect each powder charge before inserting the bullet. If you're on a single stage it's easy. When you charge the case, look inside and visually verify the depth of the charge. Then insert the bullet, so you know it has been checked.
Trail Boss looks like cheerios. And it is one of those powders that Mikey would like...
My loads with TB and 250 gr SWC are all under 5.0 grains in 455. In 38 spl with 148 gr WC it looks like around 2.5 gr, but I need to get back to testing.
As for less-filling loads, basic reloading practices must be followed. Visually inspect each powder charge before inserting the bullet. If you're on a single stage it's easy. When you charge the case, look inside and visually verify the depth of the charge. Then insert the bullet, so you know it has been checked.
Trail Boss looks like cheerios. And it is one of those powders that Mikey would like...
There are many better powders for those applications than Blue Dot, so if you can't find BD, if it were me, I would look at a powder with a burn speed more suitable to low pressure calibers instead of one with a burn speed close to Blue Dot.
But, since you are so concerned with filling the case, Trail Boss is a good suggestion. You can't hurt your guns loading it properly, or in other words, just don't compress it.
But, since you are so concerned with filling the case, Trail Boss is a good suggestion. You can't hurt your guns loading it properly, or in other words, just don't compress it.
Lj1941
Member
I would try AA#7 and Power Pistol but that is just me. YMMV.
Elkins45
Member
Another vote for Trail Boss, but it's a little scarce these days. You could always try 800-X because it is bulky and it seems to be much more available.
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