I would like to know: How many people are killed by AD's every year?

[dukeofurl]

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I would like to hear once and for all, how many lives guns claim accidentally every year. If anyone has information on these numbers, I'd like to start a place for all of it to be conveniently found.

Heres some information from what I've found to be CREDIBLE internet sources. Note: Op eds from the newspaper about how guns claim "too many" lives every year with an arbitrary number, obviously do not apply.

From the CDC, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/releases/00news/finaldeath98.htm

Overall, 30,708 people died of firearms in 1998, a 5-percent drop from 1997 and a 22-percent drop from the high of 39,595 in 1993.

FACT: Firearms Deaths, 1998 - 30,708

Get stats here: http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

Heres what I've found so far.

2001, United States
Unintentional Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races,
Both Sexes,
ICD-10 Codes: W32-W34



Number of Crude Age-Adjusted
Deaths Population Rate Rate**
802 285,317,572 0.28 0.28

Unintentional Firearms Deaths, 2001 - 802.

I think that settles all the "5 children a day are accidentally killed by guns" soapbox artists.

 

[jamz]

So, by my math, (802/365) doesn't that make it a little over two children per day accidentally killed with guns?

That still seems a little high to me.

I wonder how it compares to how many kids drown per day in swimming pools and hot tubs.

-James

 

[Stand_Watie]

That still seems a little high to me.

I believe that is the figure for all ages accidental firearm deaths.

 

[jamz]

DukeofURL: What age range did you use? I'm looking up drowning deaths, ages 0 to 14, and I get the following:

859 60,482,119 1.42

So, 859 accidental drownings of kids 0 - 14, vs. 802 accidental firearms deaths ages unknown.

-James

 

[jamz]

HAH Answered my own question again.

Accidental Firearms related deaths, all sexes, all races, ages 0-14: 42

I knew it seemed high.

However, now I am looking at the thread title, and it does say all people, not just kids, so I apologize for the hijack.

-James

 

[RED-DOG 40]

...quote:


...".How many people are killed by AD's every year?" .
My bad, Misinterperated the title to thread .

...Figured "AD`s" was ******* Democreeps.... ...

 

[Virtus]

As with many things involving statistics, it is important to parse the point you're trying to make as you ferret out the correct numbers. True, there are 42 accidental deaths attributed to firearms each year for persons between 0 and 14 years of age. There also are going to be some that were not identified and cataloged that way which fall into the "other causes" or "unknown" categories in the data. That would probably bump the number up to 50 or so.

Now that you have that number, what point are you trying to make? Just spitting out that stat doesn't mean much if you're trying to engage in a policy debate (although people on both sides of the argument would like it to).

If you're trying to debate just gun deaths, it's useful to point it out, but is not the whole picture. If you're trying to debate the gun issue from the public health standpoint (such as the VPC and a new Harvard study do) then it's also useful to have information at the ready about injuries as a result of accidental discharges and the health care costs associated with them. Perhaps look at the number of emergency room visits per year as a result of firearms. When dealing with statistics regarding kids, you could raise that issue and compare it to playground injuries and deaths, which are much more prevalent.

Anyway, just my longwinded way of saying what are you trying to get at. One we know that, we can get yout the most relevant data. Also, the CDC has now released the preliminary figures for causes of death in 2002, so it's possible for you to update your statistics.

 

[cratz2]

And while there may be a few cases that should be included as 'accidents' and would thus bump the number up a bit, considering these are kids 14 and under, I'd be willing to bet there are a number of cases where it was, in fact, a murder but it might have been ruled an accident to prevent filing murder charges against a similarly young child.

A couple years before I was born, a friend of the family was shot in the head by her step brother while she talked on the phone. The boy had been around guns his entire life and had a known hatred for his step sister. He shot her from within the same room while 'cleaning' his rifle.

It was ruled an accident because of their relation and the fact that they were both under 16.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

accidental discharge "while 'cleaning' his rifle"

That's sometimes another way of saying "suicide". A death might be called an accident so the family gets insurance money. Call it a suicide and the insurance company keeps the dough. There are considerate LEO's.

It makes the number of "accidental" deaths a little higher.

Regards.

 

[spacemanspiff]

heres selected text from something i posted (forget where i did it) about the data for 2000:

According to the National Vital Statistics Report, dated 9/16/2002, found on the CDC website, during the year 2000, there were 2,403,351 deaths in the USA, total. Of these, the combined total of accidental firearm deaths and undetermined intent firearm deaths is 1006.
There were 16,586 suicides attributed to firearms.
There were 10,801 homicides attributed to firearms.
The total number of suicides by all means was 29,350.
The total number of homicides by all means was 16,765.
There were 19,698 drug-induced deaths.
There were 19,358 alcohol-induced deaths.
There were 43,354 vehicle-related deaths.
There were 97,900 total accidental deaths.

0.041% of deaths in 2000 were what i would call preventable, the 1006 accidents and undetermined firearm related deaths.
1.150% of deaths in 2000 were from firearms used in suicides, homicides, and legal interventions.

0.819% of deaths in 2000 were from drugs.
0.805% of deaths in 2000 were from alcohol.
1.803% of deaths in 2000 were from vehicles.
4.073% of deaths in 2000 were from all accidents.
75.56% of deaths in 2000 were from the top medical-related deaths, which include HIV, malignant neoplasm’s, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, heart disease, cerebrovascular diseases, influenza, lower respiratory diseases, liver diseases, nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, nephrosis, and numbered 1,815,974.

3,012 of the firearm related deaths occurred to victim’s age 0-19. An average of 8.332 in that age group each day died from firearms.
229 of those were accidental or undetermined intent. Average of .627 each day.
1,007 of those were suicides. Average 2.758 each day.
1,776 of those were homicides. Average 4.865 each day.
30 of those were legal intervention. Average .082 each day.

Overall, for all causes of death, an average of 6,584.523 people died each day during 2000.
Overall, for firearm related deaths of all age groups, an average of 78.528 people died each day during 2000.
1.19% of the average daily deaths during 2000 were firearm related.

edit - as you can see, there were slightly over 8 killed each day between the ages of 0-19. but more than half of those were homicides.

following is the total numbers of deaths for the last 20 years or so:
firearm deaths from 1979 - 2000, from the CDC national vital statistics report
1979 - 33,019
1980 - 33,780
1981 - 34,050
1982 - 32,957
1983 - 31,099
1984 - 31,331
1985 - 31,566
1986 - 33,373
1987 - 32,895
1988 - 33,989
1989 - 34,776
1990 - 37,155
1991 - 38,317
1992 - 37,776
1993 - 39,595
1994 - 38,505
1995 - 35,957
1996 - 34,040
1997 - 32,436
1998 - 30,708
1999 - 28,874
2000 - 28,663
2001 - 29,573

 

[Andrew Rothman]

The age range should be 0-17. 18 and 19 year olds are adults.

 

[spacemanspiff]

alright mr smartypants.

heres another table i came up with, i know i have full data for 2002, but can only find the totals for those under 19:


i cant remember where i culled this data from, but eventually i'll dig it up.

 

[flatrock]

I went and looked through this data after reading some anti-gun propaganda.

The number of accidental firearms deaths is something we should all be concerned about and should work to reduce through education.

However, another think kind of jumped out at me. All these groups that are committed to reducing gun violence seem to be missing an important fact. It's not just gun violence that we should be working to reduce, it's violence in general.

Reducing gun related murders serves no valid purpose it the murder rate remains the same or goes up.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If someone is intent on murdering someone else a gun is not the only weapon they have available to them.

England and Austrailia are too good examples of how banning guns doesn't result in reduced violent crime.

While guns can make it easier for a criminal to kill, they also make it easier for someone to defend themselves.

Ok, I've taken this too far off topic.

 

[moa]

Firearms deaths have been tracked since 1904. The latest numbers on accidental firearms deaths is the lowest in history, from what I have read in other sources.

 

[spacemanspiff]

in terms of the ratio of gunowners to gun-related deaths, i think the number is the lowest.

and definitely the actual numbers have been dropping since 1993. but realize that the number of gunowners in 1904 was far less than there is today.

so to say they are 'dropping' you must also account for the rise in gun ownership.

suppose in 1904 there were 40,000 gun related deaths, and 20,000,000 gunowners. (this is only a hypothetical with the numbers, i have no idea how many gun deaths there were back then nor how many gunowners, i'm merely making a point.)

if there were the same number of gunowners in 1924, but only 37,000 gunrelated deaths, thats one thing. but the number of gunowners has only risen, doubled, and tripled, possibly even quadrupled since the turn of the century.

and as you can see from just the last 20 odd years that i posted above, the actual number of gunrelated deaths has averaged 35,258, from as high as 39,600 to as low as 28,600.
in theory, more gunowners should have meant more accidental and intentional gun-related deaths, right? so far that theory has been proven false.

 

[moa]

Modern firearms are probably much safer now then they were 50 or 100 years ago.

 

[Archie]

Flatrock has the point.

"Gun-violence"

A phrase invented by the anti-rights party to vilify guns. From my misty memory, more people are murdered every year with knives (household type) than guns. Why don't we hear more about "steak-knife violence"? People are bludgeoned to death every day, yet not a whimper about "baseball-bat-violence".

Another factoid I find absolutely amazing:
[Moronic quote] Guns are DESIGNED to kill people. [/moronic quote] Automobiles are NOT designed to kill people, yet are so very much more effective for that purpose.
What's wrong with this statement? Make the anti-rights person justify the allegation that guns are designed to kill.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If you're trying to debate the gun issue from the public health standpoint (such as the VPC and a new Harvard study do)...

Discussing firearms-related deaths from the so-called "public health standpoint" automatically hands victory to the leftist extremists.

Polio was a public health issue. Tuberculosis is a public health issue. Firearms are a civil rights and criminal justice issue, and accidental deaths by firearms are a safety issue. Firearms have nothing to do with disease. Never did. Never will.

The leftist extremists are attempting to redefine everything pertaining to firearms as a means of exercising control over both firearms and firearms owners.

 

[Stand_Watie]

That's sometimes another way of saying "suicide". A death might be called an accident so the family gets insurance money. Call it a suicide and the insurance company keeps the dough. There are considerate LEO's.
It makes the number of "accidental" deaths a little higher.

It's also worth noting that some mental health people have observed that suicidal people maytend to be more reckless. So some accidents (of any sort, not just firearms) may very well be rooted in suicidal issues.

 

[jamz]

For the record, I wasn't trying to "get at" anything- I was simply curious.

I often wonder how deadly guns are compared to, say, swimming pools. The stats seem to bear out that swimming pools are far more dangerous to have around the house.

This is mostly to counter the anti argument "You don't really NEED a gun". Well, you don't really NEED a swimming pool either, but they kill ten times as many kids, so why aren't you out banning swimming pools for private citizens?

-James

 

[Third_Rail]

Jamz: love the last sigline, I live in MA as well... I'll be moving ASAP.

 

[rayra]

forget the extended extrapolations and series of guesswork. Go for the simplest stat with the least assuptions / modifiers, then compare / contrast that with other such simple stats, to argue or sway.
Putting the actual number of children killed accidentally into some kind of valid CONTEXT puts the lie to all the States' 'for the children' baloney.
Saw a good comparison last year (?) dissecting New Jersey's last round of restricitive gun laws passed 'for the children', and it boild down to something like 2 per year. While tragic, the misuse of emotional diatribes by the Antis to inflate such a stat into restrictions on MILLIONS is the greater 'tradegy'

Better yet, shine a spotlight on the lies of VPC, which counts adult criminals shot by police in their 'children killed by guns'

 

[Mil Novecientos Once]

...Figured "AD`s" was ******* Democreeps.... ...

LMAO

The Brady and VPC campains are so dumb that they provide links to places that refute their agenda.

Burea of Justice Statistics

Centers for Disease Control

 

[rem280guy]

The gun control zealots bandy this 30,000 annual figure about as if it was true. Winston Churchill said "there are lies, damnable lies, and statistics."
Of this 30,000 total killed by firearms, roughly half are suicides. As a psych nurse with more experience than I wish, I can tell you definitely that those 15,000 folks would have taken themselves out by other means if the firearm was unavailable. Of the remaining 15,000 roughly another half are adjudicated as justifiable homicide. (Cop or good guy/good girl shoots bad guy/bad girl) Of the approximately 7,500 deaths remaining, they are about evenly split between homicides and negligent AD's. So the short answer to your question is about 3,750 people annually die as a direct result of stupidity or negligence with firearms. There are no accidents, only a failure to plan for safety.

 

[rem280guy]

By the way, cigarettes kill 400,000 Americans annually. Perhaps the public good would be better served by a 3 day waiting period for the purchase of Marlboros? Car wrecks kill 44,000 annually, with about half alcohol related.
Kind of makes the gun control zealots seem petty. Let 'em move to China if they think letting only the police & military have firearms is such a good idea. They can see firsthand just how well it works there. In the mean time, I'm waiting to see handwringing for the 11 people killed in car wrecks for every one by guns, or the 100 by cigarettes for every gun death.