If powder coating exisiting lubed bullets, do they need resizing?

[Rule3]

Didn't want this question to get lost in the other powder coat thread.

I have a a lot of MBC regular lubed bullets. If I clean off the wax lube and powder coat (paint) them, do they HAVE to be run through a bullet sizer??

Would the Lee FCD be sufficient to resize them if sizing is necessary?
(Please no LFCD thread drift)

Also, after boiling off the wax lube, would Xylene be the best solvent to completely clean off the wax lube? (from what I researched it seems it is better than mineral sprits or acetone)

Can the wax lube be removed simply by heating in the toaster oven and have it melt off (or most of it)?

 

[captain awesome]

I think this was mentioned in another thread recently, but you need to get it completely off. some mentioned boiling them in water, and thats the route I would take.

I also measure the diameter after coating. if they arent the right size then I would (and do) use one of the lee bullet sizing dies.

 

[rjbmjb]

I tried baking and boiling, and boiling worked better for me. I don't like the smell when baking, and it doesn't do as good a job as boiling, so I had to soak them mineral spirits to finish the job. I remove the bullets from the pot with a slotted spoon while it is still boiling, dry them on a towel and coat them while they are still warm. I don't get perfect coverage because I just dump them on 1/4 inch mesh screen that I cut to fit the pan, and gently shake it over a piece of wax paper to remove the excess PC. At first, I threw them in the tumbler to coat them before baking, but after seeing some posts here about shaking them in a plastic container, I tried it and the results were the same, so I retired the tumbler. The plastic container is easier to use and I don't have to clean it. Also, if you use different colors (I don't, I just use the HF red), you can just use a different container for each color.

I pulled some bullets from 44 mag, 500 S&W, 30 30 and 45 70 rounds, coated them, and reloaded them without sizing. I didn't have any problems with any of them, but I am not a bench rest shooter, so any loss of accuracy is lost on me- I shoot a Shiloh-Sharps 1874 (reproduction) with iron sights, and a group of 4-6 inches at 100 yards is a good day for these old eyes Best of all, it used to take while to clean the 33 inch barrel of the Sharps (I never could find a load that didn't leave some lead), but now it only takes a few minutes. Same results with the other guns.

I do size the bullets I cast before I coat them, using Lee sizing dies.

I have tried different lubes and Lee's Alox, but powder coating is easier, faster and (for me) gives the best results. Many thanks to the members of THR whose posts prompted me to try it.

 

[Rule3]

Well I boiled some of my MBC 230 gr RN bullets to get the lube off. Used my side burner on the outdoor grill. Dumped the water and did it again. then cleaned them with Coleman fuel. (Oh what fun!)

I shook them up in a #5 plastic container and then baked at 400 for 20 mines on parchment paper. I just dumped them did not stand on the base,

They came out pretty good, not perfect but OK for the first 100. Not sure if it is worth the time and effort, I can clean a gun faster,

Anyway, the bullets are marked .452 diameter but my calipers show them at .453. The coated ones come out at around .455. So .002 added. I am not gonna worry about them and just load and shoot them,

Shouldn't matter much will it??

 

[mdi]

Measure them. If they are bigger than you want, run them through a sizer. During my experimenting with PCing bullets I've tried sizing before coating, after coating, and not at all. I prefer to have my bullets a specific size so I size them after any processing and before seating...

 

[LiveLife]

The coated ones come out at around .455. So .002 added.

Would the Lee FCD be sufficient to resize them if sizing is necessary?

Measure them. If they are bigger than you want, run them through a sizer.

+1. During the powder coating testing with blarby, we found powder coating applied added around .001"+ thickness coating after baking (.002"+ total to diameter of bullet) and required running the bullets through the sizer which did not remove/affect the powder coating.

If powder coated bullets measure .455", as mdi suggested, I would definitely resize the bullets before reloading as using FCD will likely post-size the loaded round and brass spring back will reduce neck tension.

I would feed some post-FCD rounds from the magazine and let the slide slam forward without riding it and measure the OAL before/after. If you can measure significant bullet setback of more than a few thousandths, I would resize the bullets before reloading them.

 

[Rule3]

So then, is set back the main issue of having the bullets a bit oversized?? Wont they just swag down.?

After doing this, I was thinking (bad idea) why bother with all this work??? I shot regular lubed lead for years and had no issues. Yes, the lube tends to mess up the gun and requires more cleaning.

Also in regard to Powder Coating why not just use High Temp Automotive pain like that for Calipers?? or something like Brownels Aluma Hyde (which I have used and it is some tuff epoxy paint) Other than the cost factor, seems a lot easier.

Around $8 per rattle can.

http://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-caliper-paint

 

[LiveLife]

Being able to measure larger diameter is good sign that you are getting thick enough coating but with larger diameter bullets, finished rounds may not chamber in the barrel (plunk test), especially with tighter chamber barrels. My Sig 1911 will barely fully chamber .452" sized bullets with .473" taper crimp, which is SAAMI max.

Measuring bullet setback before/after feeding from the magazine is my standard quality check for measuring neck tension. Sure, the bullets will swage down but if you can measure more than several thousandths of bullet setback, I would check my reloading procedures and if FCD is post-sizing the bullet diameter (Keep in mind FCD for semi-auto calibers were meant for jacketed diameter sizing), I would reload without it.

Believe me, many casters like those at castboolits forum have tried everything under the sun to replace lead lube and other products either failed to hold up or accuracy suffered.

So far, powder coating has proven to be durable enough to withstand 1700 fps using wheel weight alloy (water quenched) without losing accuracy and Harbor Freight red (and other powder coating like DuPont) has shown it contains the least amount of abrasive components to not accelerate bore wear.

You can certainly use other coating products but they will likely be more costly, won't be as durable or accuracy will decrease compared to lubed lead/powder coated bullets. Hi-Tek and Hi-Tek2 are only other coating that are comparable to powder coating but cost is higher.

 

[rsrocket1]

For me, PC adds about 3-4 mils to the thickness of the l. The good news is that pushing them through the Lee sizer is like squeezing a watermelon seed through your thumb and index finger. They glide through the sizer. My 9mm bullets drop at 0.358" and PC makes them about 0.361"-0.362". They have no problem going through the Lee 0.356" sizer. Not only that but when shooting them through my 92fs which has at least a 0.356" groove diameter, there is still zero leading and nothing but a light coating of soot in the barrel after 250 rounds. 99% of it can be removed with simply a wadded up piece of paper towel.

Here's a before/after pic of my M&P 9 barrel with one swipe of the paper towel

 

[LiveLife]

That's great.

Which powder coating are you using?

 

[Rule3]

I used the HF Red powder paint. Guess my only issue is that I am not a bullet caster. I have thousands of lubed lead bullets in all handgun calibers. I really do not want to buy more equipment (especially bullet sizing dies) Plus go through all the work of removing wax lube and then painting them (that was the easy part). So probably more "prudent" for me to just shoot the wax lubed bullets. Had I thought anout the resizing issue I woul not have even started this.

I do have Hi Tec polymer and regular FMJ bullets also.

I have to much STUFF!!!

 

[Rule3]

Well I loaded some dummy rounds. Took measurements before and after. Sling shot from magazine into a Sig 220 and a XDm 45. Plunk tested each before. I did not test in my Dan Wesson 1911 as to lazy to pull it apart, If I shoot these bullets I will start with the SA XD would rather wreck that one if it comes down to it!

1.250 OAL, .470 crimp. No change at all. Plunked and chambered fine no set back.
Pulled the bullets and only a little coating came off the driving band,

Gotta love that LFCD!

 

[GBExpat]

Interesting ... I have always run them thru a Lee Sizing Die as the last PC processing step.

I have found that baking the bullets in the toaster oven (outside ONLY!) removes most of the lube. After reading what some of the fellows here have recently posted about the boiling method, I plan on trying that next time ... followed by my 2-stage mineral spirits bath.(the containers are already setup, so <shrug&smile>).

 

[Jeff H]

Late to the party here. Why are you painting lead bullets? What are you trying to gain?

 

[Rule3]

Late to the party here. Why are you painting lead bullets? What are you trying to gain?

If you had said, coating (painting) existing lubed bullets I would say good question

As to powder coating or Hi Tec polymer coating of non lubed bullets it is a form of lube and prevents lead and wax lube build up as well as no smoke.

It is the way to go these days for lead bullets. Where ya been?

This is the

Hi-Tek Bullet Coating

http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=324&category=23&secondary=&keywords=

 

[billybob44]

Yes-size after PC..
For close to 40 years I have enjoyed making GREAT projectiles, and shooting them==From wheel weights to down range holes in targets+cans..
I DO have all of the sizers/top punches for RCBS/Lyman lubersizers.
My method is to remove the linkage from my lubersizer, and push the PC projectile down through the proper die. I have a chute under the die that catches the bullet, with a length of clear plastic 3/4" tubing that takes them to a bucket to the side of my bench. This system works best for me, and as said I DO have the existing tools to do the job this way.

And FWIW, I have cast/lubed many different handgun bullets, and have found that PC is the way to go---No lead, no smoke, and NO problems..I actually think that the PC polishes up the insides of my barrels???...Bill.

 

[rjbmjb]

I decided to coat my existing lubed bullets because I was never able to find a load that works with no leading. I know others on this forum have been able to, but I guess I don't have the patience. That being said, I have found that it is quicker to just recast than clean the lube off the bullets. The OP doesn't cast, so he has to remove the lube to coat the bullets.

I have used powder coated bullets in my 30-30, Sharps 45-70, 38 special, 44 mag and S&W 500 with great results. As Bill said, no leading and no smoke, and I no longer dread cleaning my guns.

 

[billybob44]

To add to the OP questions about cleaning wax/lube from factory made bullets..I have cleaned MBC, S-N-S Casting, and MasterCast bullets, that I have bought at great prices, in bulk.
I soak (overnight) with Coleman Fuel, in a Mason jar. Final clean in a Mason jar with Acetone.
Just before I PC, I lightly spray down with Gum-Out carb spray, heat hot to touch with heat gun, and swirl for JUST a few shakes in the powder coat, place on tray, and bake 15-20 min. @ 400 degrees.
With the Gum-Out spray, and heat the paint takes to the projectiles WELL...Bill.

 

[Rule3]

What is the approximate melting temp for standard "wax" lubes. I obviously melts at boil point 212F, But was thinking I might try just melting in my shop toaster oven.

Never mind. I found this

https://media.midwayusa.com/productdocuments/applicationchart/689/bullet_lube_melting_points.pdf

 

[Rule3]

Interesting ... I have always run them thru a Lee Sizing Die as the last PC processing step.

I have found that baking the bullets in the toaster oven (outside ONLY!) removes most of the lube. After reading what some of the fellows here have recently posted about the boiling method, I plan on trying that next time ... followed by my 2-stage mineral spirits bath.(the containers are already setup, so <shrug&smile>).

I just did the bake in the toaster oven(100 bullets) method as you mentioned it is WAY easier and faster than the boiling method,

Got 99% of the lube off, moped it up with a paper towel. I still may do a boil to get the residue off, then solvent. But having most of it off will make this faster and less mess.

Just like any painting 90% is PREP work!

Good idea!

 

[Jeff H]

I honestly had no idea this was a thing. It is interesting.

It is the way to go these days for lead bullets. Where ya been?

I haven't done much reloading lately since life has been so busy I haven't been shooting much and what I have reloaded have all been plated or jacketed.

Still have ammo cans full of loaded lead bullets to shoot up before I can take advantage of this new technology.

 

[Rule3]

FWIW here is a picture of my 2nd batch of 100. They came out better than the first. I added some air soft BBs to the powder and also warmed the bullets up before shaking them. Plus I took the time to stand them up so non stuck to each other. The 1sr batch are shootable, these just look nicer.(parchment paper)

 

[reddog81]

What's the diameter post powder coating? Are you planning on sizing or loading as is?

Your Powder coat looks good. It looks like those have been 100% coverage. I have always stood up bullets on the tray and pack as many in as possible. I can get about 400 bullets into my toaster oven.

 

[Rule3]

What's the diameter post powder coating? Are you planning on sizing or loading as is?

Your Powder coat looks good. It looks like those have been 100% coverage. I have always stood up bullets on the tray and pack as many in as possible. I can get about 400 bullets into my toaster oven.

See post #4 and #12