If R=L, L=R, U=D & D=U…Why Doesn’t 4.5=14?

[Geno]

If R=L, L=R, U=D & D=U…Why Doesn’t 4.5=14? I can't figure it either. According to the gunsmith at Williams Gunsight, in Davison, MI, Leupold makes all of its scopes to intentionally adjust the point-of-impact to the opposite direction of the indication on the turret.

Now I admit that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, and if I forget that fact, my wife reminds me. When I purchased a Leupold Vari-X III, 4.5-14 w/ A.O., I figured it would be as-good-as the other Leupolds that I have owned. I had it mounted and took it to the range. I zeroed at 30 yards. Specifically, I fired 3 shots which impacted all in a single hole, POI about 1.5” right, and 1.5” low. I removed the turret caps and counted off the adjustments per what I observed. Then moved to 100 yards to set the zero 3.8” high to set the zero at approximately 300 yards.

At 100 yards, the rifle printed a nice 0.75’, 3-shot group, about 6” right, and 6” low of the POA. I sat stupefied, and blamed myself for turning things around. I removed the turret caps and again checked to see the indicated direction to turn to make proper corrections to the POI. Blaming myself, I make the adjustments in what I “know to be proper” per the turrets’ labels. When I fired the next 3-shot group, the POI was even farther right, and farther down.

Short story is, the turrets are reversed…up is down, down is up, right is left and left is right. This, for a $550.00 scope really ticks me off. So when I go to return the scope for a refund, the head gunsmith tried to tell me, “That’s how it’s supposed to be…that’s the way Leupold makes all scopes now. When you turn counter-clockwise for right, it moves the POI left.”

So, is this a common error with Leupold scopes now?

Doc2005

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Wow, I cannot imagine that they would let that mistake occur. I would have guessed operator error, but you seem pretty sure. That is indeed perplexing. Are you sure that you're using this M.O.:

The direction indicated is direction to which you WISH TO MOVE your Point of Impact TOWARD, from its present point of impact.

Is that what you're doing? Because every scope I've ever had, including Leupolds, have them marked correctly.

 

[Geno]

PS:

Correct. I was trying to move the POI as indicated (marked).

The gunsmith also confirmed that they are reversed. I too second-guessed myself at first. What is more shocking to me is the lie the gunsmith tried to get past me. I am sending Leupold an e-mail as I type. I wil post their reply.

Letter (e-mail) sent to Leupold:

Dear Leupold:

If R=L, L=R, U=D & D=U…Why Doesn’t 4.5=14? I can't figure it either. According to the gunsmith at Williams Gunsight, in Davison, MI, Leupold makes all of its scopes to intentionally adjust the point-of-impact to the opposite direction of the indication on the turret.

Now I admit that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, and if I forget that fact, my wife reminds me. When I purchased a Leupold Vari-X III, 4.5-14 w/ A.O., I figured it would be as-good-as the other Leupolds that I have owned. I had it mounted and took it to the range. I zeroed at 30 yards. Specifically, I fired 3 shots which impacted all in a single hole, POI about 1.5” right, and 1.5” low. I removed the turret caps and counted off the adjustments per what I observed. Then moved to 100 yards to set the zero 3.8” high to set the zero at approximately 300 yards.

At 100 yards, the rifle printed a nice 0.75’, 3-shot group, about 6” right, and 6” low of the POA. I sat stupefied, and blamed myself for turning things around. I removed the turret caps and again checked to see the indicated direction to turn to make proper corrections to the POI. Blaming myself, I make the adjustments in what I “know to be proper” per the turrets’ labels. When I fired the next 3-shot group, the POI was even farther right, and farther down.

Short story is, the turrets are reversed…up is down, down is up, right is left and left is right. This, for a $550.00 scope really ticks me off. So when I go to return the scope for a refund, the head gunsmith tried to tell me, “That’s how it’s supposed to be…that’s the way Leupold makes all scopes now. When you turn counter-clockwise for right, it moves the POI left.”

So, is this a common error with Leupold scopes now?

Doc2005

 

[Odnar]

Maybe you made the same mistake I made once... Had the scope mounted incorrectly, rotated 1/4 turn CCW... So when you think you're moving 3 inches left, you're actually moving the POI 3 inches down, and same with your vertical...

Or maybe your scope's screwed up.

 

[Geno]

No, it was mounted professionally at Williams Gunsight. The tracking was perfectly square; just reversed. I did pattern the scope on a target at 20 yards, and 30 yards. Its tracking was perfect, again, just reversed.

There is a very simple reason for this error, and it would be a fast fix, but would cost Leupold some precious coin. See, the turrets’ traditional coin-adjustments lie under plastic finger adjustable caps that have the directional indicators. The company that made the finger adjustments pieces for Leupold made them in error...directions reversed.

Leupold simply needs to purchase new plastic, finger-adjustment turret caps for the scopes' turrets, and then send them to customers. The problem is, if one removes the finger adjustable turrets from under the turret caps, then there exists absolutely no indication of the proper direction.

I call this matter "lack of attention to detail" on Leupold's part. For a $550.00 I expect much better.

Doc2005

 

[stubbicatt]

Doc. Sorry you were disappointed with your Leupold scope. I'm actually surprised they perform that way. Leupold is a quality company, and I feel certain they will make it right by you.

Sort of makes me doubly glad I bought an IOR last time out. Good scope, for sure. I always wondered if I should have bought the Mark 4 Leupold. I guess I still do wonder, but I feel somewhat better about the IOR scope.

 

[lions]

I have this same problem on a Tasco scope. It drives me nuts too! I just have to think about it before I start turning things.

 

[Geno]

I know...I tried the "think about it first" technique, but that is in no way intuitive. Given the extreme distances that we harvest deer in the central Michigan area, I need to have absolute knowledge of my scope, and know fact-firm it functions properly.

I suspect that Leupold, Inc is fully aware of this mishap, and that it is by no means isolated. In fact, I have heard of it many times. Leupold nolonger has to worry about making me whole, because I put my foot down with the gunsmith who tried to lie to me, and stated flat-out, "...refund my money or lose my business". My only question is what scope to buy now. I doubt it will be a Leupold.

Ironically, the Tascos that I have owned have performed flawlessly. Whatever scope I purchase to replace this Leupold will have to be tested in-store or I won't purchase it. For what it's worth, I hear that the Weavers are excellent and track extremely well.

 

[hksw]

To clarify so I understand the post correctly,

when the rounds at 30yds were 1.5" right/1.5" low, which direction did you turn the turrets?

(For Leupold, R is counterclockwise, U is counterclockwise.)

 

[Olympus]

This is a problem that a friend of mine had on a scope that he mounted on his muzzleloader. It was a cheapo Barska. It was at 30 yards and made some adjustments. Then he moved it out to 100 yards and it was worse. So he made so more adjustments and got competely off the paper. The adjustments were backward and with him trying to correct it, he was just making it worse and worse. Eventually, he had to move the target up to about 7 to 10 feet and start out fresh. It was horrible, especially with a muzzleloader. He was out there for almost 6 hours working on that thing before he finally got it back where it was.

Whatever the direction the arrow pointed is the most common way you turned it to move your POI.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Does everything look smaller through the scope too?

If so, maybe this "pro" mounted it upside down and backwards.

 

[Art Eatman]

Well, if it's a hunting scope, that's a "set it and forget it" deal unless you're trying to reach beyond 500 yards. I always zero for 200 and rely on good-eye and holdover. Seems to me that if you zero for 300 and rarely shoot beyond 400, you're golden...

I hate having to remember stuff, other than trajectory.

 

[Bailey Boat]

I'll bet it's a "new model" made for the upcoming X'er generation 'cause everything they do is backwards anyway......

 

[hankdatank1362]

That's happened to me as well, but only with a cheap TASCO red dot.

And it was only the windage, not the elevation. Still have it, mounted on my AK. It doesn't need to be super accurate, anyway.


I'd poop if that happened with a Leupold.

 

[Geno]

Art:

I can't set-it and forget-it for several reasons. First, I hunt the open bean fields. While I zero the rifle for 300 yards, the shots are typically 300 to 525 yards. That extreme distance requires adjustments. Given the extreme range, as I said, confidence in the rifle/scope is imperative. Also, different weight projectiles (i.e. 150 gr, v. 168 gr, v. 180 gr) require adjustments, as does fine-tuning after a barrel cleaning. The general zero is pretty consistent, but the fine-tuning takes adjustments. Worst of all, I intended to use this same scope across allllll of my Picatinney railed-rifles, i.e. my Rem 700 Varmint, my Weatherby Mark V, my Weatherby Vanguard and my Bushmaster ORC. That takes considerable adjustment, especially when two of the rifles' rails have 20 MOA off-set, and the other two have zero off-set. Precision is a must or I end up wasting precious time and ammo and frustrating the urine outta myself.

hksw:

I followed the direction indicated on the finger-adjustment turret caps. The gunsmith too confirmed the scope to be reversed.

Oh well, I just finsihed mounting the Mueller 4.5-14 w/ AO that I bought about a month back to use on my Kimber Gov't model 82. We'll see how it works. It is a centerfire scope, but I purchased it for the .22LRs because the AO goes down to 10 yards....nice. BTW, the turrets do work properly on that "cheap" $139.00 Mueller scope. Ironic isn't it.