If shotguns were invented in 2021, would 20 gauge be the best gauge?

[Fishingted]

16 would still be the best gauge.

Yea Absolutely!!!!

 

[yeongjo]

I have mostly 12 gauge shotguns

Surprisingly, never having given it much thought I have never used anything other than a 12 gauge. I always thought a 20 gauge was suitable for smaller shooters due to recoil, and a 410 for smaller still, as a shotgun training aide. lol

 

[George P]

A 36 gauge would be REAL close at .506

 

[Rex in OTZ]

Some parts of the world toss parameters out the window.
For awhile now (1970's) Russia has issued to police and military as well as civilian use a 23mm shotgun.
Original shotgun barrels were rejected 23 mm antiaircraft artillary barrels.

23 mm round, equating to 6.27 gauge using the British and American standards of shotgun gauges and approximately 4 gauge using the current European standards (based on the metric CIP tables), making it the largest-bore shotgun in use today
Size wise this 4ga thumper makes the 10ga look almost normal.


The KS-23 & TOZ-123.
The TOZ-123 was banned from import into the United States during the Clinton administration.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KS-23

 

[Fishingted]

Surprisingly, never having given it much thought I have never used anything other than a 12 gauge. I always thought a 20 gauge was suitable for smaller shooters due to recoil, and a 410 for smaller still, as a shotgun training aide. lol

Actually if you Run 3 inch magnum in most 20 gauge guns the recoil will be harder then equilivent i a 12 gauge. My Favorite Gauge is actully a 16. Grew up using them. I trully beleive they hit harder than Either 20 or 12. Only problem is I reload and 16 gauge components are very hard to get. I shoot Both 12 and 20 gauge for trap and skeet.as well as Hunting. Just for fun I sometimes shoot my 20 on front line trap. A 20 is going to inherintly throw a more cilindrical smaller pattern. The 12 ga pattern is going to be larger. At longer trap shooting ranges the advatage goes to the 12 for sure. It shoots a flatter pattern regardles of Choke. On Skeet Either 12 or 20 is fine. I really like the 20 with a imp cylinder or skeet Choke. Lighter faster swinging gun and a ton of fun on the skeet range. As far as Hunting It depends on what you hunt. Waterfowl hunters are Definately going To go mostly with the 12 gauge. having to shoot steel and non toxic shot. I personally hunt a lot of squirels with a 20 gauge single shot with a turkey choke. I almost never use 3 inch magnum Loads. For one thing I have found that a 1 ounce number 6 load is more than enough for even tough fox squirrels at a good distance. I like the 20 Single shot because it is Light to Carry. It doesn't kick badly with 2-3/4 heavy hunting loads. 3 inch Mag in my 20 kicks harder than a 12 gauge would. Just my Opinion. Hope it helps. I have a friend that was introducing his girlfriend to Sporting Clays. She was using his 870 pump and did Surprisingly well for a new Shooter. He thought a 20 gauge would be Better with less recoil so he bought her one. She did not do well with the 20 gauge, and said it kicked harder than the 12. Hard enough to break sporting clays with a 12 let alone a 20. The hevier 12 also soaked up more recoil. So there you go!!! One thing you can also do is shoot an Auto if you want to reduce Recoil. It makes a Huge difference.

 

[Garandimal]

The "Sweet Sixteen" would be.

... but seem to get along fine w/ the 2-3/4"/Mod. 12 and 20 ga. 870's.




GR

 

[George P]

Actually if you Run 3 inch magnum in most 20 gauge guns the recoil will be harder then equilivent i a 12 gauge. My Favorite Gauge is actully a 16. Grew up using them. I trully beleive they hit harder than Either 20 or 12. Only problem is I reload and 16 gauge components are very hard to get. I shoot Both 12 and 20 gauge for trap and skeet.as well as Hunting. Just for fun I sometimes shoot my 20 on front line trap. A 20 is going to inherintly throw a more cilindrical smaller pattern. The 12 ga pattern is going to be larger. At longer trap shooting ranges the advatage goes to the 12 for sure. It shoots a flatter pattern regardles of Choke. On Skeet Either 12 or 20 is fine. I really like the 20 with a imp cylinder or skeet Choke. Lighter faster swinging gun and a ton of fun on the skeet range. As far as Hunting It depends on what you hunt. Waterfowl hunters are Definately going To go mostly with the 12 gauge. having to shoot steel and non toxic shot. I personally hunt a lot of squirels with a 20 gauge single shot with a turkey choke. I almost never use 3 inch magnum Loads. For one thing I have found that a 1 ounce number 6 load is more than enough for even tough fox squirrels at a good distance. I like the 20 Single shot because it is Light to Carry. It doesn't kick badly with 2-3/4 heavy hunting loads. 3 inch Mag in my 20 kicks harder than a 12 gauge would. Just my Opinion. Hope it helps. I have a friend that was introducing his girlfriend to Sporting Clays. She was using his 870 pump and did Surprisingly well for a new Shooter. He thought a 20 gauge would be Better with less recoil so he bought her one. She did not do well with the 20 gauge, and said it kicked harder than the 12. Hard enough to break sporting clays with a 12 let alone a 20. The hevier 12 also soaked up more recoil. So there you go!!! One thing you can also do is shoot an Auto if you want to reduce Recoil. It makes a Huge difference.

Sorry, I disagree. Choke, not bore diameter is the determination of choke pattern and there is no such thing as a "flatter pattern". A shotgun pattern is a 3-d parabolic cone shaped scenario.
As to components for 16, ALL components are hard to get these days, but back when times were good, components for 16 were readily available from a variety of sources.

 

[tws3b2]

16 Just a Maybe. 20 Definitely a No.

 

[d2wing]

No. They have existing for a long time and the 12 guage is dominate and will do more. I shoot both. Today's shooters would likely come the same conclusion. They each have their place.

 

[entropy]

The 38 special, and the 38 S&W for that matter can be shot out of a 357 gun. All the 20 shells can be run through a 3 inch 20 if you want to do the one gun thing. I guess there are people with one gun out there anyway.....

Incorrect. The case for .38 S&W will not fit into a .357 Mag. (or .38 Spl.) without a LOT of pounding. Then there's the .361 dia. bullet.....

 

[Fishingted]

Sorry, I disagree. Choke, not bore diameter is the determination of choke pattern and there is no such thing as a "flatter pattern". A shotgun pattern is a 3-d parabolic cone shaped scenario.
As to components for 16, ALL components are hard to get these days, but back when times were good, components for 16 were readily available from a variety of sources.

Sorry to disagree. But if that was the case ther would be lot more 20s being used on the trap field then they are. it would be simpler to just shoot a 20 with a 1 ounce load or 1 1/8 over a 12 gauge. I have seen photos of shot strings with 20 ga versus 12. And the 20 was far more conical than the 12. Basickly it showed a lot more of the 12 gauge load arriving at the same place simotainiously than equeal load out of 20 gauge. As far as components for 16 the other gauges are much easier to get and also more variable components. Besides that I am only set up to load 12 and 20. And Good luck finding any 16 gauges cases or target Loads in a store at all. 16 target Loads Are not something that most ammo makers have any interest in producing at all for whatever reason. And the 16 gauge is not included in any skeet shooting competitions.

 

[George P]

Put the crack pipe down, there are no 1-1/8 oz 20 gauge loads............and there are ZERO targets that 12 will break that a 20 will not.

Don't believe me? What's your ATA/NSSA/NSCA number and classification?

There are more 12s on the trap field because folks who can't shoot feel they need 1-1/8oz to hit a clay target that takes 3 pellets to break; but then again those same guys all use release triggers because payloads and recoil have given them a nasty flinch.

Photos? Seriously? A 2D picture of a 3D conical parabolic shape? Please..........

As to 16 there are no target loads because no game has a 16 gauge category; your best bet is using light field loads

 

[HowieG]

Incorrect. The case for .38 S&W will not fit into a .357 Mag. (or .38 Spl.) without a LOT of pounding. Then there's the .361 dia. bullet.....

I would suggest you reevaluate your information source. The lead bullet diameter of the 38 S&W is .358-.359 IAW Lyman 50th and Cartridges of the World 14th. Witness the attached pics of my GP100 and a round of 38 S&W. Be advised that older firearms sometimes had oversized bores.
View attachment 974918 View attachment 974919

 

[tws3b2]

The 38 special, and the 38 S&W for that matter can be shot out of a 357 gun. All the 20 shells can be run through a 3 inch 20 if you want to do the one gun thing. I guess there are people with one gun out there anyway.....

Incorrect. The case for .38 S&W will not fit into a .357 Mag. (or .38 Spl.) without a LOT of pounding. Then there's the .361 dia. bullet.....

Incorrect. The case for .38 S&W will not fit into a .357 Mag. (or .38 Spl.) without a LOT of pounding. Then there's the .361 dia. bullet.....

HowieG is correct. The 38 spl can be shot from a 357. It's the 357 that will not fit into the 38.

 

[HowieG]

HowieG is correct. The 38 spl can be shot from a 357. It's the 357 that will not fit into the 38.

Not 38 special. 38 S&W. It is shorter than the special. It does chamber in my Ruger 357 and my S&W Model 67 38 Special although the base of the case is a bit snug in the Smith.

 

[entropy]

Not 38 special. 38 S&W. It is shorter than the special. It does chamber in my Ruger 357 and my S&W Model 67 38 Special although the base of the case is a bit snug in the Smith.

I did size some .38 S&W blanks down in my .357 die (with the depriming rod out) for theatrical use, they would not fit in my Trooper MkIII without doing so.

There are more 12s on the trap field because folks who can't shoot feel they need 1-1/8oz to hit a clay target that takes 3 pellets to break; but then again those same guys all use release triggers because payloads and recoil have given them a nasty flinch.

For some that is too true. There are a lot of guys that shoot 1 oz., though, particularly for singles. Most do want those extra pellets for handicap.

 

[HowieG]

I did size some .38 S&W blanks down in my .357 die (with the depriming rod out) for theatrical use, they would not fit in my Trooper MkIII without doing so.

There is a wide variation in old ammo. You will note that the 38 S&W in the picture is a modern R-P round. I have a very old 38 Colt New Police round made by WRA Co. Theoretically, it is supposed to be the same as a 38 S&W, but it has an oversize bullet and won't even begin to chamber in my 357. In my opinion, at some point, the bullet was standardized at a smaller diameter in the 38 S&W to allow manufacturers to make just one size barrel for their 38 S&W and 357/38 Special guns. There is some variation in the cartridge base diameter also. That modern R-P 38 S&W base measures .381" and is doable in my guns. The old New Police round measures .384" at the base and sure as hell wouldn't fit even if I was able to get the oversize bullet to start.

 

[entropy]

That makes sense. I don't have experience with newer .38 S&W ammo, sound like they made them smaller just in case they were chambered a .38 or .357. They're certainly not overpowered.

 

[HowieG]

That makes sense. I don't have experience with newer .38 S&W ammo, sound like they made them smaller just in case they were chambered a .38 or .357. They're certainly not overpowered.

Perhaps. I have only tried one brand. I am not going as far as to suggest that all modern 38 S&W ammo will chamber in all 357/38 Spcl. guns. I guess if you tried a brand and it worked, it would give you an added ammo source in an emergency, but 38 S&W isn't exactly common anymore.

 

[Fishingted]

I did size some .38 S&W blanks down in my .357 die (with the depriming rod out) for theatrical use, they would not fit in my Trooper MkIII without doing so.



For some that is too true. There are a lot of guys that shoot 1 oz., though, particularly for singles. Most do want those extra pellets for handicap.

I normaly shoot 1 ounce on trap or skeet.