If you have not joined Oath Keepers, here's your chance.

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Ran into the local Oathkeeper leader while at an open carry event... to say that he was a little unkept-looking would be an understatement. He saw my short haircut and made a beeline straight to our table, terrifying the wife with his wild-eyed, aggressive sales pitch. He might have been a challenge to a 5th grader in knowledge of the Constitution.

He then yelled loudly at me for carrying a 1911 in Condition One. I asked him if he was the one at the Bundy ranch that was claiming that the drone would be there in 20 minutes (this was in Las Vegas)

We'd see him every month at Bass Pro for member's night, wearing the same clothing.
 
I got the same feeling reading this thread that I get when I walk through the living room and my wife is watching The Housewives of _____ (name of some random city).
 
The individual members of an organization presented in anecdotes are not the leadership of the organization or the organization itself. The do reflect on it though. Don't be distracted by the isolated anecdote, but do attend to the aggregate of all of them for a broader view of the people representing any organization.
 
The primary goal of this thread is to engage those who wish to participate. For those who oppose Oath Keepers, you're welcome to exercise your first amendment right to free-speech. Just know that I won't be engaging anyone further on the merit of this organization, as it's obviously pointless to argue with some on the internet.

I can't support a organization of law-enforcement members that actively interfere with legal law enforcement . That is not "oath keeping" to me.
 
Let's try to focus on the organization and leadership instead of the goofy fringe elements of some members. Still, Oath Keepers should vet their membership and focus on the original purpose or they will continue to suffer a terrible rep due to the wannabes, should never have been, and neverweres that have been identified in this thread.

We certainly wouldn't want THR characterized by some of our whackier outspoken members, would we?

So, let us turn the conversation back to the organization.

Here are the 10 orders Oath Keepers have as their core.

Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey

Recognizing that we each swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and affirming that we are guardians of the Republic, of the principles in our Declaration of Independence, and of the rights of our people, we affirm and declare the following:

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.

Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.

In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny. Accordingly, we oppose any and all further infringements on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In particular we oppose a renewal of the misnamed “assault-weapons” ban or the enactment of H.R. 45 (which would register and track gun owners like convicted pedophiles).

2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects – such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the use of “writs of assistance,” which were essentially warrantless searches because there was no requirement of a showing of probable cause to a judge, and the first fiery embers of American resistance were born in opposition to those infamous writs. The Founders considered all warrantless searches to be unreasonable and egregious. It was to prevent a repeat of such violations of the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects that the Fourth Amendment was written.

We expect that sweeping warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.

3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the denial of the right to jury trial, the use of admiralty courts (military tribunals) instead, and the application of the laws of war to the colonists. After that experience, and being well aware of the infamous Star Chamber in English history, the Founders ensured that the international laws of war would apply only to foreign enemies, not to the American people. Thus, the Article III Treason Clause establishes the only constitutional form of trial for an American, not serving in the military, who is accused of making war on his own nation. Such a trial for treason must be before a civilian jury, not a tribunal.

The international laws of war do not trump our Bill of Rights. We reject as illegitimate any such claimed power, as did the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1865). Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the attempt “to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power” by disbanding the Massachusetts legislature and appointing General Gage as “military governor.” The attempt to disarm the people of Massachusetts during that martial law sparked our Revolution. Accordingly, the power to impose martial law – the absolute rule over the people by a military officer with his will alone being law – is nowhere enumerated in our Constitution.

Further, it is the militia of a state and of the several states that the Constitution contemplates being used in any context, during any emergency within a state, not the standing army.

The imposition of martial law by the national government over a state and its people, treating them as an occupied enemy nation, is an act of war. Such an attempted suspension of the Constitution and Bill of Rights voids the compact with the states and with the people.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

In response to the obscene growth of federal power and to the absurdly totalitarian claimed powers of the Executive, upwards of 20 states are considering, have considered, or have passed courageous resolutions affirming states rights and sovereignty.

Those resolutions follow in the honored and revered footsteps of Jefferson and Madison in their Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, and likewise seek to enforce the Constitution by affirming the very same principles of our Declaration, Constitution, and Bill of Rights that we Oath Keepers recognize and affirm.

Chief among those principles is that ours is a dual sovereignty system, with the people of each state retaining all powers not granted to the national government they created, and thus the people of each state reserved to themselves the right to judge when the national government they created has voided the compact between the states by asserting powers never granted.

Upon the declaration by a state that such a breach has occurred, we will not obey orders to force that state to submit to the national government.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the blockade of Boston, and the occupying of that city by the British military, under martial law. Once hostilities began, the people of Boston were tricked into turning in their arms in exchange for safe passage, but were then forbidden to leave. That confinement of the residents of an entire city was an act of war.

Such tactics were repeated by the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, and by the Imperial Japanese in Nanking, turning entire cities into death camps. Any such order to disarm and confine the people of an American city will be an act of war and thus an act of treason.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

Mass, forced internment into concentration camps was a hallmark of every fascist and communist dictatorship in the 20th Century. Such internment was unfortunately even used against American citizens of Japanese descent during World War II. Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boers, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, and to the Chechens, for example.
Such a vile order to forcibly intern Americans without charges or trial would be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason, regardless of the pretext used. We will not commit treason, nor will we facilitate or support it.”NOT on Our Watch!”

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.

During the American Revolution, the British government enlisted the aid of Hessian mercenaries in an attempt to subjugate the rebellious American people. Throughout history, repressive regimes have enlisted the aid of foreign troops and mercenaries who have no bonds with the people.

Accordingly, as the militia of the several states are the only military force contemplated by the Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, for domestic keeping of the peace, and as the use of even our own standing army for such purposes is without such constitutional support, the use of foreign troops and mercenaries against the people is wildly unconstitutional, egregious, and an act of war.

We will oppose such troops as enemies of the people and we will treat all who request, invite, and aid those foreign troops as the traitors they are.

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the seizure and forfeiture of American ships, goods, and supplies, along with the seizure of American timber for the Royal Navy, all in violation of the people’s natural right to their property and to the fruits of their labor. The final spark of the Revolution was the attempt by the government to seize powder and cannon stores at Concord.

Deprivation of food has long been a weapon of war and oppression, with millions intentionally starved to death by fascist and communist governments in the 20th Century alone.

Accordingly, we will not obey or facilitate orders to confiscate food and other essential supplies from the people, and we will consider all those who issue or carry out such orders to be the enemies of the people.

10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

There would have been no American Revolution without fiery speakers and writers such as James Otis, Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine, and Sam Adams “setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”

Patrick Henry: “Give me Liberty, or Give me DEATH!”

Tyrants know that the pen of a man such as Thomas Paine can cause them more damage than entire armies, and thus they always seek to suppress the natural rights of speech, association, and assembly. Without freedom of speech, the people will have no recourse but to arms. Without freedom of speech and conscience, there is no freedom.
Therefore, we will not obey or support any orders to suppress or violate the right of the people to speak, associate, worship, assemble, communicate, or petition government for the redress of grievances.

— And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually affirm our oath and pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. Oath Keepers

The above list is not exhaustive but we do consider them to be clear tripwires – they form our “line in the sand,” and if we receive such orders, we will not obey them. Further, we will know that the time for another American Revolution is nigh. If you the people decide that you have no recourse, and such a revolution comes, at that time, not only will we NOT fire upon our fellow Americans who righteously resist such egregious violations of their God given rights, we will join them in fighting against those who dare attempt to enslave them.
 
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I encourage everyone to find out for yourself what Oath Keepers is all about in person. That can only be done by actually participating locally.
 
I disagree.

Local groups can follow their own agendas different from the core organization. In doing so they may actually work against the core organization and their leadership. It is far more important to find out what the current purpose of the organization and the leadership may be than to gauge the entire organization by small elements.
 
I disagree.

Local groups can follow their own agendas different from the core organization. In doing so they may actually work against the core organization and their leadership. It is far more important to find out what the current purpose of the organization and the leadership may be than to gauge the entire organization by small elements.
It appears the organization is fairly well connected via forums and meetings at national, state, and local levels. While someone may want to wait for a national meeting, that would be less frequent.

The quickest way to find out what Oath Keepers is about is to participate locally. It may be that there are county level groups meeting monthly or more often.

Sign up for your state forum, get connected, go to a meeting locally and you'll know soon enough.
 
I've read 3 pages of posts trying to figure out what they are all about, as I had never heard of this group before. I still don't know. I've seen lots of general platitudes but not much in the way of specifics, and tactics. We all support the Constitution and have our own ideas of how we do that. There are lots of people who "support the 2nd Amendment" in ways that feel are more damaging than supportive. I don't understand what this group's thinking is. After reading 3 pages, you cannot seem to convey that information other than to refer everyone to someone else. Telling me I need to become involved in a local chapter to understand what they are all about is akin to saying "We need to pass this bill so we can find out what's in it".
 
At it's simplest, they are organizing people who wish to uphold and preserve Constitutional rights. They do so through regular meetings to discuss how they, in their own communities, can rally and organize others to this cause.

Moreover, and likely secondarily, they are organizing people at a local level to be able to mobilize people to respond in crisis situations where the governing civil authorities won't maintain civil order.

In New Orleans, after Hurricane Katrina, there were large areas of the city which were absolutely deadly to be seen walking around in. Literally, people were being shot by strangers just because the police were not present and rampant lawlessness was the rule.

Why did this happen? Because the civil authorities were either not willing or not able to keep order. Many police simply fled their shift because the higher-ups in the chain of command didn't care to do anything.

In instances such as this, it would do a community well to have band of people who are already coordinated, have communication systems already in place, and are willing to stand guard an maintain order when the criminal elements within a community think they smell an opportunity to go lawless.

Make sense? I think so, and so do many others out there.

I really wish this thread wasn't placed in this subforum. That has effectively halved the number of views in the last day alone.

I humbly request that it be placed back in the regular Activism forum. Pretty please! Thanks! God bless!
 
The thread quickly became a discussion and that's why it is appropriate for Activism Discussion.
 
The thread quickly became a discussion and that's why it is appropriate for Activism Discussion.
I see. May I create another thread in the regular activism forum that redirects anyone wishing to discuss into this thread?
 
What exactly are you implying?

Keep in mind of whom you choose to associate with.

On September 11, 2001 the media and government were working up the scare factor on Islamic terrorist.

The scare factor has slowly shifted from foreign Islamic terrorists to home grown right wing terrorists.

"Terrorists" that used to frequent Al-Aqsa are now "terrorists" that frequent Al's Big Box Sporting goods store.
 
As I read these comments, I see a lot of generalizations, unfounded comments, misunderstandings, a lack of research, and perhaps some who seem to be a little short sighted in regards to the constitution.

You will not find what Oath Keepers is by bouncing around their forums. The forum is a place for people to "talk". Naturally, there are many thread categories and many subtopics per category. Think about the conversations you have with extended family during the holiday visits while choking down the turkey. It is probably varied and all over the place, just like this forum, and you don't always agree.

If you want to understand Oath Keepers, skip their forums for now. Visit their homepage. Scroll down and find the videos of the founder and listen to him explain it. Read the bylaws. Peruse the sections with study information on the constitution and federalist/anti-federalist papers. Go back and explore the homepage some more.

Once you have a good understanding of Oath Keepers, you will be able to distinguish between the serious minded Oath Keepers and the nut jobs in the forums,...same as here.
 
As I read these comments, I see a lot of generalizations, unfounded comments, misunderstandings, a lack of research, and perhaps some who seem to be a little short sighted in regards to the constitution.

You will not find what Oath Keepers is by bouncing around their forums. The forum is a place for people to "talk". Naturally, there are many thread categories and many subtopics per category. Think about the conversations you have with extended family during the holiday visits while choking down the turkey. It is probably varied and all over the place, just like this forum, and you don't always agree.

If you want to understand Oath Keepers, skip their forums for now. Visit their homepage. Scroll down and find the videos of the founder and listen to him explain it. Read the bylaws. Peruse the sections with study information on the constitution and federalist/anti-federalist papers. Go back and explore the homepage some more.

Once you have a good understanding of Oath Keepers, you will be able to distinguish between the serious minded Oath Keepers and the nut jobs in the forums,...same as here.

That seems like terrible advice for someone who wants to really get to know an organization; you're basically saying "judge this book by it's cover only - don't look inside".

Founding ideas, bylaws, etc... are only relevant if the membership embraces them, agrees with them and upholds them. It's true that every forum (including this one) has its extremists, but those users/posts don't make up the majority and the average forum user should be able to tell the difference between a "nutty view" and the general concensus.
 
OTOH, the national face on the internet is controlled by the leaders of the organization and reading that is as good an idea of what the organization is about without becoming part of the organization on a high enough level to be an organizer within it.

It appears that Oath Keepers needs to either exercise better control over membership or they're going to face having their organization represented in a negative manner.

That's not too different from the 2A movement seeing individuals stain the reputation of us all by the irresponsible and reckless behavior in public of a very few, but those folks aren't claiming to represent an organized and lead membership.
 
I've read 3 pages of posts trying to figure out what they are all about, as I had never heard of this group before. I still don't know. I've seen lots of general platitudes but not much in the way of specifics, and tactics. We all support the Constitution and have our own ideas of how we do that. There are lots of people who "support the 2nd Amendment" in ways that feel are more damaging than supportive. I don't understand what this group's thinking is. After reading 3 pages, you cannot seem to convey that information other than to refer everyone to someone else. Telling me I need to become involved in a local chapter to understand what they are all about is akin to saying "We need to pass this bill so we can find out what's in it".

Did you go to their website at oathkeepers.org? A good place to start is finding the videos on the homepage of Stewart Rhodes, the founder of Oath Keepers. Do you make your own decisions or follow the masses? Trying to figure it out by listening to the hogwash comments is like listening to the gossip in the streets when something bad happens. Vetting information through reliable sources is paramount. Go to the source if possible. When that isn't possible, go to a source you trust who is close to the original source. If TSHTF, are you going to verify info before making major decisions, or react to all the opinions on the street? I'm not trying to sound harsh here, or come across like I'm setting you straight. I'm just trying to be helpful in the thought process of how to obtain the correct answers when you have legitimate questions.

I know this forum focuses on the 2A, and some of the constitutional opinions in regards to Oath Keepers actions at Bundy and Ferguson, indicates that some here could afford to branch out and learn more about the entire constitution. I suppose I could go back through the thread and debate everything point by point, but no one held my hand as I learned the constitution. I learned it because I had a sincere desire to dig deep and find out the basis for each point in the constitution. I did indeed listen to many opinions in regards to the constitution, but the truth of it is in the words of our founders, those who designed it. Another example of going to the source.

For example, someone posted earlier that Oath Keepers at Bundy Ranch were sounding the alarm that the government was about to use drones against them. This issue and others that occured at Bundy are addressed in a video by Stewart Rhodes himself along with a few members of the BOD who were all there at Bundy. They set the record straight as to what all occured and what measures were taken to vet information and dispel rumors. You can seek out the truth for yourself, or you can buy into the hyped propaganda espoused by some with an apparent agenda to discredit Oath Keepers.

...or the readers here can continue to buy into the opinions of those who just want to argue and discredit.
 
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When I vet something, going directly to the source is the last thing I'll do if I expect accurate information and the truth. It's like a clown in an ice cream truck asking you to trust him, not gonna happen. Stepping outside the source, looking into secondary sources of information about the group (such as its membership, and the sort of behavior the group condones) and tertiary sources (people who're not involved, but have dealings with the group both positive and negative) is going to garner more information. With multiple sources, it's then possible to glean a modicum of truth and formulate an opinion.

I have been to Oathkeepers.org. What I find is a mixture of right wing conspiracy theory, doomsday preppers, and anti-government anarchist propaganda. On its face, the rhetoric is positive and something I can and do agree with. It's what's deeper, below the surface that concerns me. The clown might simply be a children s entertainer, and the ice cream truck may be loaded with 31 flavors. But the clown could be John Wayne Gacy and the ice cream truck is loaded with dismembered body parts.
 
hso said:
Still, Oath Keepers should vet their membership and focus on the original purpose or they will continue to suffer a terrible rep due to the wannabes, should never have been, and neverweres that have been identified in this thread.

They should, but they don't. I am in huge agreement with you there. If I am planning on joining a group called "Oath Keepers" I would like to be surrounded by others who swore a similar oath. Instead of just anyone who pay membership dues. I was more than ready to make a copy of my DD214 for membership, and it wasn't required or even mentioned. I have met plenty of Oath Keepers in multiple states. None were police officers or military. Those I did meet were armchair operators who looked like they couldn't climb stairs let alone fight in a revolution they claimed to be prepping for. Others were glorified boy scouts in terms of survival, Constitutional, or firearms knowledge.
 
I joined and not happy for 3 days I have been looking at this.

Your account has been activated but you are currently in the moderation queue to be added to the forum.

I sent mail to admin. Nothing So they don't need me or my money.

If they can't maintain their board. Then I don't have much faith they can do anything else. :cuss:
 
If they can't maintain their board. Then I don't have much faith they can do anything else.

I doubt we should consider the two are related. Volunteer Admins hopefully have real jobs (they better be good enough to hold down a paying job) and it might take days to activate someone's account.
 
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