Illinois CCW Signage Question

[Trent]

Here's an odd one.

My office is a suite in a building; there are four separate offices with one common entrance.

Today an investment broker in one of the other suites posted a "no concealed carry" sign on his door to Illinois State Police specs. This door is an interior door (suite A). The building entrances itself aren't posted.

Is this even legal? Per the ISP page;

Owners of any statutorily prohibited area or private property, excluding residences, where the owner prohibits the carrying of firearms must clearly and conspicuously post the Illinois State Police approved sign, in accordance with Firearm Concealed Carry Act, at the entrance of the building, premises or real property. Please refer to Section 65 (Prohibited Areas) of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act for more information on statutory requirements for signage as well as where concealed weapons are prohibited.

The ironic part of this, is I run concealed carry classes upstairs from him, and was considering renting another vacant suite specifically to run my concealed carry classes out of so I can increase student capacity.

 

[MErl]

Probably falls under premises or real property. It is a leased area under his control and he is posting the entrance to that area.

So where does one get those stickers? Who is selling them or giving them away?
(I doubt he would have a one off printed but possible)

 

[Trent]

He probably just printed and taped it up. There's a PDF available on the Illinois State Police website you can print from.

Illinois treats commercial leased space as a "fixed place of business", which has a legal definition. It has given me the right to carry in my own office for a couple of decades.

The wording of the concealed carry act was a little different than the Unlawful Use of Weapons act used to be, so I thought it prudent to get an opinion.

I could call my lawyer but he charges me upwards of $200 an hour to answer questions.

But.. if there's any question, I will call him.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

Think how funny this would be if Illinois had open carry as an option with people wearing handguns walking by the door to this business all day long.

I ran into a friend of mine in a shopping center, and we, both open carrying, struck up a conversation for a few minutes. I got the feeling that we were being watched so I looked around. In the window behind us I saw the baleful eyes of a woman glaring at us. When I smiled at her, she pointed to the gunbuster sign on her business' door. I just smiled and pointed at the sidewalk at my feet. Some people.

ECS

 

[Trent]

Well, I'm trying to rent another suite, directly below my current office, and immediately across the hall from his. I'll have tables, chairs, and gun posters set up for running CCW classes.

(We're going to dual purpose it - back half will be a workshop for my other business when I'm not running classes.)

If I get the office, I'll put a sign on the door. "Office of Trent Lawrence, NRA Certified Rifle / Pistol / Shotgun Instructor, State of Illinois Concealed Carry Training"

Should provide a nice stark contrast to his "gun free zone" lol.

I've already got the building listed as a covered facility on my Instructor's insurance; I've been running NRA basic pistol classes upstairs from his office for a month...

 

[MErl]

That looks alot like a sticker in the picture, cannot see any tape there. You saw it more clearly, was it just taped up paper?

I was mainly wondering if the state would give you one for free if you asked. Fund it from the CCW fees as a little back at ya.

 

[Trent]

I'm working remote today; one of my employees supplied the picture to me this morning.

I'll check it out when I'm at the office this afternoon.

 

[paulgl26]

The City of Oak Park is giving them out for free
I asked for one and it will go in the garbage

 

[MErl]

The City of Oak Park is giving them out for free
I asked for one and it will go in the garbage

They wont care much if you actually post it, it'll get used as propaganda "Over 300 businesses have asked for the sign." (or whatever the final number ends up being)

I would not be surprised if the state sent out to every business the following (perhaps with the next tax bill). This was forced on them and expect them to make it as difficult as possible.

Effective Jan 1 2014 IL licenses the concealed carrying of firearms. These are your rights as a property owner in regard to this law. If you do not desire people carrying weapons on your property affix the enclosed sign at the main entrance. If you need more signs they can be requested at XXX.​

They would include a little fact sheet and one or two stickers.

 

[Trent]

To answer the "sticker" question;

It's just printed out, and stuck on with double sided tape.

 

[ilbob]

only the owner can post by law, and only if the property is under his or her control.

(a-10) The owner of private real property of any type may
prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms on the property
under his or her control. The owner must post a sign in
accordance with subsection (d) of this Section...

a sign posted by a tenant does not have the force of law.

it is also an all or nothing thing. you cannot post and then say some people can come in armed and others cannot unless you are a college or university.

 

[steve4102]

If I get the office, I'll put a sign on the door. "Office of Trent Lawrence, NRA Certified Rifle / Pistol / Shotgun Instructor, State of Illinois Concealed Carry Training"

I applaud your efforts, but I'm thinking this is just going to backfire on you. My guess is "He" and several other tenants in the building will gang up on you and force the owners/managers of the property to cancel your lease and send you down the road.

 

[Trent]

I applaud your efforts, but I'm thinking this is just going to backfire on you. My guess is "He" and several other tenants in the building will gang up on you and force the owners/managers of the property to cancel your lease and send you down the road.

We have the right to quiet enjoyment in Illinois with rental property, so the landlord probably couldn't do much one way or the other.

The law here also protects my right to carry a firearm in a fixed place of business, so the landlord wouldn't have the ability to prohibit me from keeping a gun on me.

Could be a moot point. Our lease is up next month and I've offered to buy the property. We're in a position (as a company) where we could easily afford to buy or build our own property now, so wherever this ends up is largely irrelevant.

Just curious as to whether it carries force of law, it doesn't appear to, by the IL Statute wording.

 

[tactikel]

Would Trent have legal recourse? He is legally conducting a business.

 

[Trent]

I'd have legal recourse if the property was barred in it's entirety.

But this is just one "suite" of the office.

This is the crap we get now, for having a poorly/hastily written bill passed in to law. This stuff wasn't thought through very well for "real world implication".

 

[wildbilll]

I think it's a great real life lesson for your students. Point it out to them during class and they will surely start noticing these signs more.
A also agree that, unless Edward Jones Co. owns that building or that portion of the building, technically the sign is not valid.
But, if those people inside that office want to believe that sign just made them safer, that is their business.

 

[ilbob]

Would Trent have legal recourse? He is legally conducting a business.

Maybe not. The law gives the property owner specific permission to make that choice. At the very least, if the owner posts, it gives him a lot of legal cover.

It may well come down to what does his lease says he is allowed to do. If the lease says he can have these kind of classes there, then the owner probably cannot ban carry in the building because that would effectively prevent him from having the classes.

Nothing in the law prevents someone other than the owner of the property from posting a sign. It just does not appear that it has the force of law.