In Bloomberg’s nightmare nation it’s ‘guilty until proven innocent’

[JohnPierce]

In the wake of the 2012 NRA Convention in St Louis, Missouri, the group Mayors against Illegal Guns (MAIG), under the leadership of New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, has mounted a full-scale media blitz against the Second Amendment.

In an article in which he decries the NRA’s ‘nightmare nation’, Bloomberg and his allies rail against a litany of perceived problems with American gun laws.

One of the proposals they are reviving is one that I find particularly offensive from a constitutional perspective. It is the demand that those whose only offense is that their name appears on the so-called ‘Terrorist Watch List’ be denied the right to purchase firearms.

Given that there is such a clamor to use this list to deny fundamental rights, you might assume that there are some fairly elaborate due-process protections in place. But you would be wrong.

Let’s do a little question and answer session …

Excerpt ... Read more

 

[JTHunter]

It's already that way with regard to some of the "Unlawful Use" statutes in Illinois.

Certain "exemptions" to specific sections "require" a defendant prove they are "eligible" to use the exemptions BEFORE they can use them.

 

[Feanor]

Bloomberg, and like minded politicians elsewhere in America, and those that lap at their feet, are as creepy, and sinister, as any character ever created by G. Orwell.

 

[vaherder]

Terrorist Watch List

Sorry if your name is on it you there should be a delay in your ability to purchase and/or own firearms. Yes I know all about the problems with the list but the law should be written to give folks whose name(s) appear on the list
due process to challenge the prohibition against their owning firearms. Now the law must be written so that this resolved within 90 days one way or another. In very rare cases the govt must be allowed to appear before the court and say because of National Security we can not discuss Elmer Fudd's
case in an open court. They provide the judge with a short classified synposis of Fudd's case. Judge signs off if he/she agrees. Sorry Mr Fudd and his attorney dont get the chance for appeal or to view the info. Fudd will know why he was denied. If he doesnt he is full of it.

My girlfriend undergoes a pat down or worse very time she flies commercial since 9/11. This was true when she was a senior NCO serving on Secdef's staff with code word clearances w/lifestyle polys from all the alphabet soup agencies. Our sources have never been able to find out why.

Dont agree with honorable fool of NYC and the other clowns in his group on much but I do in this rare case.

 

[JohnPierce]

Sorry if your name is on it you there should be a delay in your ability to purchase and/or own firearms. Yes I know all about the problems with the list but the law should be written to give folks whose name(s) appear on the list
due process to challenge the prohibition against their owning firearms. Now the law must be written so that this resolved within 90 days one way or another. In very rare cases the govt must be allowed to appear before the court and say because of National Security we can not discuss Elmer Fudd's
case in an open court. They provide the judge with a short classified synposis of Fudd's case. Judge signs off if he/she agrees. Sorry Mr Fudd and his attorney dont get the chance for appeal or to view the info. Fudd will know why he was denied. If he doesnt he is full of it.

My girlfriend undergoes a pat down or worse very time she flies commercial since 9/11. This was true when she was a senior NCO serving on Secdef's staff with code word clearances w/lifestyle polys from all the alphabet soup agencies. Our sources have never been able to find out why.

Dont agree with honorable fool of NYC and the other clowns in his group on much but I do in this rare case.

You seriously are ok with a 90 day delay in the exercise of a fundamental right based upon the contents of a list you aren't even allowed to see????

 

[Bubba613]

Why should someone have to prove he's a good guy?

 

[Salmoneye]

You seriously are ok with a 90 day delay in the exercise of a fundamental right based upon the contents of a list you aren't even allowed to see????

Makes you wonder, huh?

 

[Old Fuff]

I am always impressed with these kind of laws because I am ABSOLUTELY SURE that if a real terrorist tried to get a firearm he/she couldn't possibly do so because they had "made the list." This is because there is no way to obtain a firearm except by going to a licensed dealer, filling out a form(s) and going through a background check that would reveal that you're one of the bad guy's.

Really...

 

[Feanor]

Sorry if your name is on it you there should be a delay in your ability to purchase and/or own firearms. Yes I know all about the problems with the list but the law should be written to give folks whose name(s) appear on the list
due process to challenge the prohibition against their owning firearms. Now the law must be written so that this resolved within 90 days one way or another. In very rare cases the govt must be allowed to appear before the court and say because of National Security we can not discuss Elmer Fudd's
case in an open court. They provide the judge with a short classified synposis of Fudd's case. Judge signs off if he/she agrees. Sorry Mr Fudd and his attorney dont get the chance for appeal or to view the info. Fudd will know why he was denied. If he doesnt he is full of it.

My girlfriend undergoes a pat down or worse very time she flies commercial since 9/11. This was true when she was a senior NCO serving on Secdef's staff with code word clearances w/lifestyle polys from all the alphabet soup agencies. Our sources have never been able to find out why.

Dont agree with honorable fool of NYC and the other clowns in his group on much but I do in this rare case.

This opinion is quite frankly terrifying to me. It is the kind of mindset necessary for emerging totalitarian states, such as Canada & the USA, to enact thought crime laws, hate crime laws, and laws criminalizing free speech, as has already been done in Canada.

The founders would be to the man, horrified.

 

[Old Fuff]

I hope that vaherder will take into consideration that the government can put anyone on "the list," without having to show any reason; And that not everyone can afford a lawyer to fight the issue to a conclusion.

Also I find it foolish to believe that blocking one's access to licensed firearms dealers means that a serious terrorist couldn't accomplish what a teen living in a urban inner-city neighborhood can. This, "Can't get on an airplane, can't buy a gun list" is nothing but a sad joke. :banghead:

 

[JohnPierce]

The founders would be to the man, horrified.

My thoughts exactly!!! :banghead:

 

[vaherder]

Again I Know All About the List

If I thought the list didnt have any value or was used as an enemies list
I wouldnt feel the way I do.

Sorry In this case I dont have a problem with your ability to purchase a firearm being delayed for a max of 90 days as long as you are awarded due process. How many would be prohibited from being able to purchase firearms?
We dont know. Can terrorists get guns by other means yep. Other there some really dumb terrorist out there who would go to their LGGS for their firearms you bet. Remember be aren't just talking about AQ and their supporters.

Some of you all are just a little too paranoid and spend way too much time listening to Rush and his top Sean Hannity. Obviously you all think your govt which cant even pay prostitutes and organize a conference that falls within the regs written by that agency has the time and where with all to put anyone it wants on the watch list.

Sorry bubba but just because you spout off at Legion Post about Comrades Barry, Nancy and Harry doesnt mean you are special enough to get your name on the watch list. And your neighbor cant get your name on the list.


Its a good thing that having paranoid delusisons about the effectiveness of your govt doesnt disqualify one form owning a firearam or some of you would be facing the loss of your firearms.

My suggestion is turn on Fox Business and Fox during the mornings and afternoons and watch the hot babes in short skirts. Drool like I do over the hot Fox weather babe Maria Melina. Its beats listening to the fat poor excuse for a human being Rush who should be in doing time for his drug offenses and his side kick the boy throbbin Sean Hannity.

 

[Paladin7]

This is another ruse promoted by Bloomberg and his Statist ilk. They are always trying to package up the taking away of our rights in something that sounds so good to the majority of people. This is their tactic and the OP was wise to point it out. These miscreants believe the ends justifies the means, reference "Fast and Furious."

There is already a NICS background check in place. We don't need anything more. I do not support any delay in purchasing a firearm. A NICS check is all that is required, and can be used to effectively block the sale of OTC guns to criminals, whether they are terrorists or just plain felons.

The Marxist Left are already working on declaring TEA Party members as terrorists, so you can easily see where this is leading...

 

[mortablunt]

Guilty until proven innocent or on his payroll.

 

[armoredman]

vaherder, the late Senator Kennedy ended up on the watch list. A child of 3 ended up on the watch list. I refuse to fly, so I have no idea if my rather unusual name is on the watch list, and due to the secrecy you espouse, I cannot find out without buying a ticket and getting groped by TSA. I find your ideas to be chillingly unAmerican in origin and scope. The calm acceptance of star chamber proceedings is especially disturbing, as you assume 100% accuracy on the governments behalf, the same government that gave American firearms to vicious drug gangs in Mexico and got a Federal Agent killed.

In very rare cases the govt must be allowed to appear before the court and say because of National Security we can not discuss Elmer Fudd's case in an open court. They provide the judge with a short classified synposis of Fudd's case. Judge signs off if he/she agrees. Sorry Mr Fudd and his attorney dont get the chance for appeal or to view the info. Fudd will know why he was denied. If he doesnt he is full of it.

What happens if Aunt Samantha is wrong, and Mr Fudd truly did nothing wrong? It is then just fine and dandy to deny him a core fundamental right as defined by the Supreme Court of the United States, AND give him no chance to know either the charges against him, (also against The Supreme Law of the Land), and no chance to appeal to apply for a redress of wrongs, (also against the Constitution), much less the fact that if this "option" is used once it will be the automatic response, to save time and "bother" for government attorneys, perhaps the same ones sending all those blacked out pages to the House Oversight Committee?
I am sorry sir, I must disagree with you completely and utterly.

 

[Feanor]

If I thought the list didnt have any value or was used as an enemies list
I wouldnt feel the way I do.

Sorry In this case I dont have a problem with your ability to purchase a firearm being delayed for a max of 90 days as long as you are awarded due process. How many would be prohibited from being able to purchase firearms?
We dont know. Can terrorists get guns by other means yep. Other there some really dumb terrorist out there who would go to their LGGS for their firearms you bet. Remember be aren't just talking about AQ and their supporters.

Some of you all are just a little too paranoid and spend way too much time listening to Rush and his top Sean Hannity. Obviously you all think your govt which cant even pay prostitutes and organize a conference that falls within the regs written by that agency has the time and where with all to put anyone it wants on the watch list.

Sorry bubba but just because you spout off at Legion Post about Comrades Barry, Nancy and Harry doesnt mean you are special enough to get your name on the watch list. And your neighbor cant get your name on the list.


Its a good thing that having paranoid delusisons about the effectiveness of your govt doesnt disqualify one form owning a firearam or some of you would be facing the loss of your firearms.

My suggestion is turn on Fox Business and Fox during the mornings and afternoons and watch the hot babes in short skirts. Drool like I do over the hot Fox weather babe Maria Melina. Its beats listening to the fat poor excuse for a human being Rush who should be in doing time for his drug offenses and his side kick the boy throbbin Sean Hannity.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Its my sincere hope that the bureaucracy thrusts you, or one of your loved ones onto one of its lists, thats the only way people such as yourself can learn, you must be taught the hard lessons, the hard way!