indoor shooting range? has anyone built their own?
- Thread starter SkaerE
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barnetmill
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I have a crude place that needs refinement for .22's under the house. I have on occasion used up to 9mm. i have a 5/16" plate that is in front of a series of concrete walls (about 25 inches thick with rebar). I need to do more work with lights. With scopes there is no problem, but the light is not good enough for iron sights. major problem is noise and toxic lead fumes. I use to use fans to remove the lead fumes, but that lets noise out. there is a new county rule that noise must not be audible inside of neighboring homes, so no more fans. I have set up some hepa filters and will likely go to wearing a half face respirator with hepa filters. there may be a problem if I go to sell the house since it is now contaminated with lead. I live alone so children are not a big problem.
Sunray
Member
"...know ventilation, sound proofing, and "bulletproofing"..." Very small part of it these days. The environmental issues of expelling leaded air is the big deal. Most municipalities, urban or rural, require the exhaust to be of the same air quality, or better, as the intake. Air scrubbers are expensive.
I helped a friend build a 100-yard underground range some years ago. He buried 4- or 5-foot diameter culvert galvanized pipe some 10 feet under ground. Built a track in it to hold the electric powered cart with a target frame on it. Controls at the shooting room would move it back and forth on the track. There was a 20-foot long ventilated room in front of the shooting room with a chronograph set up. The ventilated shooting room had a concrete bench to shoot from as well as another bench to reload at. An 8-inch square port in the wall between the shooting and chronograph rooms right in front of the bench kept muzzle blast from being a problem. I've shot many a round in that place as it was a great, wind-free place to shoot; even at temperatures in the single-digit ranges; thanks to the kerosene heater in the shooting room. It was a great place to see how many reloads per .308 Win. case we could get as the reloading setup was only 5 feet away from the shooting bench. Got almost 50 reloads on one case full length sizing it every time but ran out of our test powder to go on from there.
The US Air Force Shooting Teams had an underground rifle range at Lackland AFB used to test rifles. A friend of mine was one who tested prototype M16's there for suitability in USAF applications. He reported that while .22 rimfire rifles did well, the ranges's 18-inch diameter tube was too small for centerfire rifles, especially M1 Garands. Accuracy with them was not near as good as shooting outdoors. They quit testing centerfire rifles in that tube then tested 'em outside only for accuracy. Functional tests did OK in the tube as accuracy wasn't an issue for that application.
Then there's the big indoor range at the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. Stop by there on your way through and ask for a tour to see it. Upstairs is for airguns at 10 meters and downstairs is the 50 meter smallbore range complete with automatic target carriers that feed a new target in place when the shooter mashes the button at his firing point.
The US Air Force Shooting Teams had an underground rifle range at Lackland AFB used to test rifles. A friend of mine was one who tested prototype M16's there for suitability in USAF applications. He reported that while .22 rimfire rifles did well, the ranges's 18-inch diameter tube was too small for centerfire rifles, especially M1 Garands. Accuracy with them was not near as good as shooting outdoors. They quit testing centerfire rifles in that tube then tested 'em outside only for accuracy. Functional tests did OK in the tube as accuracy wasn't an issue for that application.
Then there's the big indoor range at the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. Stop by there on your way through and ask for a tour to see it. Upstairs is for airguns at 10 meters and downstairs is the 50 meter smallbore range complete with automatic target carriers that feed a new target in place when the shooter mashes the button at his firing point.
All,
Some of you have built, used, have seen some interesting designs of indoor shooting designs. But, they all seem to lack air safety (proper ventilation), sound proofing, lighting efficiency, easy target changing, ability to accomodate most rounds, durability, and low cost. Fact, my design can be of different sizes including length, diameter, under/above ground, with a varity of bullet traps.
Come on folks, give me a gingle. Ask questions.
[email protected]. This address is easier than this form.
This morning I will be shooting my P38 and AR15.
RogerL
12-27-09
Some of you have built, used, have seen some interesting designs of indoor shooting designs. But, they all seem to lack air safety (proper ventilation), sound proofing, lighting efficiency, easy target changing, ability to accomodate most rounds, durability, and low cost. Fact, my design can be of different sizes including length, diameter, under/above ground, with a varity of bullet traps.
Come on folks, give me a gingle. Ask questions.
[email protected]. This address is easier than this form.
This morning I will be shooting my P38 and AR15.
RogerL
12-27-09
range master
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hi imbuilding my self a under ground shooting range .all u need for walls and roof is wooden railway sleepers . thay will hold a lot of weight . for the trap at the end is a 45 degrees steel plate 8mm thick . water trap 3feet deep with ventilation
mortablunt
Member
I built a training range for airsoft in my basement back when I was starting off with guns. I also occasionally take cardboard boxes and create a killing house for tactical training.
CapnMac
Member
Hey Tim,
Look into 72" square precast drainage culvert. While you are doing that, check the precast catalog for collector boxes. You really want one at both ends, so that you have a definable "door" between range tube and basement.
Collector boxes will already be fit for manholes, too. Pitch the run to the butt/target end for any water infiltration. The target end collector box can have a 'well house' on it to hold ventilation equipment as well.
Done like that, you can have it on construction plans as "Ground Source Heat Pump Experiment Area" and your profession will make the "huh?" go away. Mostly. Or, just rig it up as a Change Order with your contractor.
Look into 72" square precast drainage culvert. While you are doing that, check the precast catalog for collector boxes. You really want one at both ends, so that you have a definable "door" between range tube and basement.
Collector boxes will already be fit for manholes, too. Pitch the run to the butt/target end for any water infiltration. The target end collector box can have a 'well house' on it to hold ventilation equipment as well.
Done like that, you can have it on construction plans as "Ground Source Heat Pump Experiment Area" and your profession will make the "huh?" go away. Mostly. Or, just rig it up as a Change Order with your contractor.
Shadow 7D
Member
Insulated Foam Form Concrete
SSN Vet
Member
Any foam used in an sound dampening needs to be fire resistant.
BASF makes a foam specifically for accoustic purposes.... it is often used in studios and commercial building lobbies to get rid of echo and reverberation. The trade name is Basotect and if I recall correctly it has melomine in it.
We did a job fabricating some custom panels on our CNC wire profiler at work years ago.
It is really expensive material.
If you're wondering what happens when cheap polyurethane packaging foam is used for sound dampening and then catches on fire, the text book example is The Station nightclub fire in RI, in which 100 souls perished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire
Polyurethane can give off fumes very similar to phosgene gas when burned.
BASF makes a foam specifically for accoustic purposes.... it is often used in studios and commercial building lobbies to get rid of echo and reverberation. The trade name is Basotect and if I recall correctly it has melomine in it.
We did a job fabricating some custom panels on our CNC wire profiler at work years ago.
It is really expensive material.
If you're wondering what happens when cheap polyurethane packaging foam is used for sound dampening and then catches on fire, the text book example is The Station nightclub fire in RI, in which 100 souls perished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire
Polyurethane can give off fumes very similar to phosgene gas when burned.
Shadow 7D
Member
IFC is usually fronted with wall board, but it would be a cheaper way of doing poured in place concrete, with the extra sound proofing.
CapnMac
Member
Given the use, I'd spec Densglass over ICF forms.
If it were in central Texas, I'd front up a dude who has a patented spray foam product which meets NFPC standards, and is permissible to use in lieu of gypsum wall board.
Only issue in building your "tunnel" from ICF is the "roof." You could size the width to match precast "plank" panels, but that will add complexity (and cost, ergo). Getting enough structure to carry metal decking gets expensive too. If, as much for the expense of waterproofing the change in materials.
This is where using the precast culvert sections will have an advantage--they are designed for ground burial.
I've run into this designing rainwater sequestration systems (back when Central Texas still had rain <sigh>). It's not the perimeter, or the "floor", it's the "roof" of the thing that gets pricy (that, and 500-750 gallon bladder tanks).
If it were in central Texas, I'd front up a dude who has a patented spray foam product which meets NFPC standards, and is permissible to use in lieu of gypsum wall board.
Only issue in building your "tunnel" from ICF is the "roof." You could size the width to match precast "plank" panels, but that will add complexity (and cost, ergo). Getting enough structure to carry metal decking gets expensive too. If, as much for the expense of waterproofing the change in materials.
This is where using the precast culvert sections will have an advantage--they are designed for ground burial.
I've run into this designing rainwater sequestration systems (back when Central Texas still had rain <sigh>). It's not the perimeter, or the "floor", it's the "roof" of the thing that gets pricy (that, and 500-750 gallon bladder tanks).
Shadow 7D
Member
Old school
a cathedral vault (fancy way to say peaked roof) in STABLE ground with an ANCHORED and attached floor (yes, you can float buried stuff out of the ground) with water proofed barrier (pond liner over flat roofing compound or 'rubberized' sealant)
And well constructed french or curtain drains, do you site work right and you shouldn't have to worry about water, do it wrong, and you'll never get it dry. Precast would be simple, but requires ALOT more equipment, the convenience of cinder block or ICF is that you can have a an easy 'access' (and egress ie. underground emergency exit) with a lane that is taller than it is wide. And can be built with little foot print by the owner with out a bunch of extra heavy equipment.
Just tell the neighbors you're upgrading the septic.
a cathedral vault (fancy way to say peaked roof) in STABLE ground with an ANCHORED and attached floor (yes, you can float buried stuff out of the ground) with water proofed barrier (pond liner over flat roofing compound or 'rubberized' sealant)
And well constructed french or curtain drains, do you site work right and you shouldn't have to worry about water, do it wrong, and you'll never get it dry. Precast would be simple, but requires ALOT more equipment, the convenience of cinder block or ICF is that you can have a an easy 'access' (and egress ie. underground emergency exit) with a lane that is taller than it is wide. And can be built with little foot print by the owner with out a bunch of extra heavy equipment.
Just tell the neighbors you're upgrading the septic.
Johnny Lightning
Member
building a range on 80acrs
Would it be possible to convert an above the ground cinder block barn into a indoor shooting range? I live in Eastern Pa and dont know what the rules are for building an indoor range but this structure seems to be almost perfect. There are a couple of indoor ranges near me but none of them rent out guns and are VERY hard to get into. I also have about 80acrs to play with for an outdoor range but am almost sure that I would have issues w/ township building an outdoor range since I live in an area that is shotgun only during deer season
There again I dont know what the rules are and what it would take to get it done. I have been trying to think of different things to do w/ the property (I am not a farmer) and would love to build a range if possible.
Would it be possible to convert an above the ground cinder block barn into a indoor shooting range? I live in Eastern Pa and dont know what the rules are for building an indoor range but this structure seems to be almost perfect. There are a couple of indoor ranges near me but none of them rent out guns and are VERY hard to get into. I also have about 80acrs to play with for an outdoor range but am almost sure that I would have issues w/ township building an outdoor range since I live in an area that is shotgun only during deer season
There again I dont know what the rules are and what it would take to get it done. I have been trying to think of different things to do w/ the property (I am not a farmer) and would love to build a range if possible.My uncle had a pistol range in the basement of a 80 or so year old house in LI. He built a backstop out of steel and anhled it, filled it with sand, and we used it since I was a kid until he passed away. You couldn't hear a 38 from the basement to the kitchen right where the door went down about 15-20 ft. I bet he spent a couple hundred dollars on it, served his purpose well. You couldn't fire anthin bigger than a 38. But back in the day "60's" thats about allwe sot anyway and 22. He used egg crates and boarded the wondows up, just on the side where th "range" was, those old houses were like bomb shelters on an acre of land. You weren't hearing anything outside. i guess now he might have to re inforce that bullett catcher, but since he reloaded in a sepeate area, that would have been no problem.It was only about 40 feet but served it's purpose, Never minede going there for the holidays.
Shadow 7D
Member
Hunting regs, and what you may or may not discharge in your area are completely different, the only problem I could see is if you gunned down some deer as they mossied across the range
(the guys always thought it was funny when I was in the army, until range control made them clean it up, and there was usually some 'older' ones somebody else had missed that the old guy used to just love watching the curl up at the thought of touching it)
any who, http://www.snailtraps.com/
http://www.millerwelds.com/resource...wthread.php?16132-Snail-quot-Bullet-quot-Trap
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-771476.html
Get some quality metal, put it infront of either rail road ties or CONCRETE (not blocks and 9mm will go through them) tilted to your bullet trap. Some people will put the 'bounce' plate to deflect the bullet into sand, some water, others a snail drum
(the guys always thought it was funny when I was in the army, until range control made them clean it up, and there was usually some 'older' ones somebody else had missed that the old guy used to just love watching the curl up at the thought of touching it)
any who, http://www.snailtraps.com/
http://www.millerwelds.com/resource...wthread.php?16132-Snail-quot-Bullet-quot-Trap
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-771476.html
Get some quality metal, put it infront of either rail road ties or CONCRETE (not blocks and 9mm will go through them) tilted to your bullet trap. Some people will put the 'bounce' plate to deflect the bullet into sand, some water, others a snail drum
I see a PCA superfund lead abatement program in anyones future that builds an indoor range in their residentially zoned abode. Bank/mortgage companies can get kinda funny about any possible pollution on the property.
I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade here I'd like to have a home range myself. As far as exhausting lead and shooting by products/chemicals in a residential area goes that's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Discharging a firearm within city limits may be a concern as well. In the end driving to a range may well be the most practical solution. Please take what i've said above for what it's worth....I'm not a attorney i'm just expressing some obvious concerns that jump out at me.
I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade here I'd like to have a home range myself. As far as exhausting lead and shooting by products/chemicals in a residential area goes that's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Discharging a firearm within city limits may be a concern as well. In the end driving to a range may well be the most practical solution. Please take what i've said above for what it's worth....I'm not a attorney i'm just expressing some obvious concerns that jump out at me.
Shadow 7D
Member
not really, elemental lead actually isn't that bad...
white lead - paint, and organic compounds of lead, those are bad, read up a little before screaming like chicken little.
white lead - paint, and organic compounds of lead, those are bad, read up a little before screaming like chicken little.
Wow no ones screaming anything....I guess all the regulations involved in operating an indoor shooting range are for no good reason, I'm also guessing that you know for a fact that lead dust, elemental or not is not harmful. I'll take your word for it you seem to be well read on the subject, but the local EPA may not.
I'm also not a perspective buyer or mortgage loan officer that you would need to convince either, but I'm pretty sure they won't take your word for it either. I guess you missed some of the key words in my post.(not trying to rain on anyones parade, by products of discharging firearms, residential areas, I'd like to have a home range myself,please take what I say for what it's worth, I'm not a attorney.)
You need to lighten up a little, besides my post wasn't about the sky falling silly goose it was about some possible concerns involved in discharging firearms in enclosed spaces. By the way I did check wikipedia...very interesting reading indeed.
I'm also not a perspective buyer or mortgage loan officer that you would need to convince either, but I'm pretty sure they won't take your word for it either. I guess you missed some of the key words in my post.(not trying to rain on anyones parade, by products of discharging firearms, residential areas, I'd like to have a home range myself,please take what I say for what it's worth, I'm not a attorney.)
You need to lighten up a little, besides my post wasn't about the sky falling silly goose it was about some possible concerns involved in discharging firearms in enclosed spaces. By the way I did check wikipedia...very interesting reading indeed.
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