Interesting nra response re: Cavalry Arms raid

[gunshow]

I sent the following email to the nra:

What is nra's response to the batfe's shameless attack upon Cavalry
Arms in AZ today? Clearly batfe has gotten another warrant from one of
their rubber stamp "judges." Nra has seemed rather silent on other
batfe abuse against Red's in Idaho and KT Ordnance. Why is nra silent on
growing atf abuse?

This was the interesting response:

Dear _____,

Thank you for your email.

Far from being silent, NRA is leading the fight on BATFE reform, in HR
5092 in the last congress, 3 congressional hearings, and the
introduction of HR 4900. Here is a link that reflects our recent legislative
activity in regards to BATFE reform:

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=3336

Thank you again.

Cordially,


Angus McClellan
NRA-ILA Grassroots

Clearly the nra utterly refuses to give any specific assistance, verbal or otherwise, to the growing number of gun manufacturers and dealers who are receiving economic terrorism at the hands of the batfe.

NRA is essentially saying here and by their lack of words/action/support for Cav/Reds/KT et al that "there's nothing we can do for them at the moment." How sickening.

The reason the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world have had so much success at getting their way is that they show up and RALLY. They don't ignore opportunities to rally their troops. The fact that NRA continues to ignore these opportunities by ignoring these abused companies/dealers as if they don't exist, is maddening to say the least.

 

[wideym]

I would think that sending money and/or lawyers to these gun dealers and manufacurers would be a great advertising and recruiting tool for the NRA.

They should also post a unified or specific defence fund link on their website and in their magazine for the victims of the ATF.

Many members and potential members only see the NRA as a large corporation who is only interested in lobbying congress and not helping the little guy, just like the .gov. A check for $10,000 to Cavalry Arms would bring a million dollars in new memberships.

 

[graybeard321]

everyone on this board is asumeing that cavalry arms is being picked on by atf and batfe. They maybe or maybe they are guilty as hell. This maybe why the nra is slow to or has not responded. If the NRA jumps out and supports Cavalry and it turns out they were guility of the charges it will give the anti's more ammo to take our guns.

 

[chieftain]

I would think that sending money and/or lawyers to these gun dealers and manufacturers would be a great advertising and recruiting tool for the NRA.

They should also post a unified or specific defense fund link on their website and in their magazine for the victims of the ATF.

Many members and potential members only see the NRA as a large corporation who is only interested in lobbying congress and not helping the little guy, just like the .gov. A check for $10,000 to Cavalry Arms would bring a million dollars in new memberships.

First, that is not the purpose of the NRA.

Second, they are going to get the facts before they do anything. If they wound up giving money to a criminal, the anti gun people would tear them apart. There is a reason they have been carrying the water successfully for 135 years or so. Going off half cocked is not one of them.

Shooting themselves in the head is not one of them either. If they gave money to a possible terrorist operation, they would be placed on the same lists as many of the Muslim charities.

No, wait and get the facts. This tends to confuse many folks. There are names for folks who do things with no basis in facts.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[gunshow]

If the NRA jumps out and supports Cavalry and it turns out they were guility of the charges

Has something like that EVER happened? After all, OTHER gun lobbies have come to the aid of abused gun dealers/manufacturers. You don't seem to believe that it's possible to get a strong sense of whether a company/dealer is actually guilty of something "bad" or not. I do. I think 99% of us have already been able to tell that at most, Cavalry Arms/KT Ordnance/Reds have made accidental paperwork errors. It doesn't even appear that KT has even done THAT much. KT is the most innocent of the three (they haven't been charged and STILL can't get their inventory back) and I think most of us can see that all three are innocent of any ACTUAL crimes.

+1000 to wideym. I'm anxious to see if anyone deals with your point that it's a GLARING opportunity for nra to raise $$ and memberships which they are passing up. NRA has passed up dozens of opportunities like this and few dare to ask why. I had thought of this aspect and forgot to include it in the original post because I was so mad I got sidetracked. Thank you for bringing it up.

 

[JohnBT]

"I think 99% of us have already been able to tell that at most, Cavalry Arms/KT Ordnance/Reds have made accidental paperwork errors."

Do you work for one of them? Have you seen the paperwork? Have you seen the audit reports? I haven't.

Meanwhile, maybe the NRA is sending legal advice or money to some of these businesses. Maybe they aren't. In any event, the NRA doesn't sell legal insurance as far as I know.

Maybe some people are just looking for any excuse to bash the NRA.

John

 

[billwiese]

Please understand NRA is not a private legal insurance company.

If it were, an individual's membership would be $800/year, and even a small biz membership would be much much more.

And no smart nationwide organization puts all its bets on red; it stays above the fray and in strategic policy matters. What if CavArms is wrong? What if there was a bum employee or two? What if they're great machinists with truly poor recordkeeping (beyond the current 'missing comma on 4473' issue)?

This appears to be a whole different situation than the war-on-FFLs. I notice that articles mention tax.

I hope CavArms has good legal representation - they're large enough they should, and stupid if they don't.

[I don't have a whole lotta honey to share with them though, as they didn't help Californians out much with off-list lowers in our little AR revolution - unlike other manufacturers - most notably Lauer Custom and RB Precision, as well as a handful of intermediating FFLs - who backed us at a critical time and were not cowed by Ca DOJ's FUD memos.]

NRA's firepower is best spent in a very gun-friendly Congress where these issues can ultimately be dispatched in bulk - as opposed to a case by case basis.

Also, because of some firsthand knowledge of this, sometimes NRA directly or thru an affiliate may help out 'interesting' cases, behind the scenes. It likely depends on how 'clean' the case is (i.e, whistle-clean dude or firm and an LE agency decides to reinterpret a law or regulation), or case turns into a strategic way in getting toward standing to challenge something, or to get an LE agency to generate paperwork that's useful for future court cases.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

 

[tinygnat219]

gunshow,

Before the NRA even remotely commits to something like this, I want to know more about what's going on and WHY that dealer was raided. Was there an inordinate amount of firearm traces leading back to his store? Did the owner / management of the store knowingly sell illegal weapons? The forums and other 8th hand sources of information are disparately silent.

Clearly the nra utterly refuses to give any specific assistance, verbal or otherwise, to the growing number of gun manufacturers and dealers who are receiving economic terrorism at the hands of the batfe.

That is complete and utter hogwash. The NRA answered that they are sponsoring legislation to prevent the ATF from doing the kinds of raids that are irresponsible, dangerous, and infringing on our rights. I am sorry that they don't have their hordes of lawyers lining up behind the dealer, but not even the NRA has the resources to keep up that kind of fight for a while for every dealer. The NRA is spending their money wisely in making it illegal for the ATF to do it again.

NRA is essentially saying here and by their lack of words/action/support for Cav/Reds/KT et al that "there's nothing we can do for them at the moment." How sickening.

What do you want the NRA to do? Foot the legal bill?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Clearly the nra utterly refuses to give any specific assistance, verbal or otherwise, to the growing number of gun manufacturers and dealers who are receiving economic terrorism at the hands of the batfe.

Well we should probably wait and see if any legitimate charges come from this. It's entirely possible that there was a crime committed by Cav Arms, it's just too soon to know what is really going on.

A check for $10,000 to Cavalry Arms would bring a million dollars in new memberships.

Or destroy the 2A movement if it turns out Cav Arms is guilty of something.

Slow down people...... patience......

 

[Bubbles]

I imagine the NRA is a bit "gun-shy" about stepping into these tyeps of events after former board member Sandy Abrams (Valley Guns, Baltimore, MD) got shut down for federal firearms violations.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I hope the NRA's lack of involvement is simply a wait and see what all the charges are and evidence is. As far as I can determine in my reading, nothing definitive has been said by CA or the BATF. If any of you have knowledge of definite charges or facts I would like to see them.

 

[El Tejon]

"When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!"

In criminal law: get the money, get the facts.

What's the charge, sarge? Let's find out what is alleged, if anything, before we go bounding off chasing geese.

 

[Samuel Adams]

So far, the GOA and JPFO are also silent on this issue.

 

[TexasRifleman]

silent on this issue.

Is there an issue yet?

That's the real question at the moment.

 

[Organdonor]

Sounds to me like it was likely just a form-letter response from the NRA to the email. They homed in on:

Why is nra silent on
growing atf abuse?

They chose just to answer that one question, rather than go into any specifics.