IS AGI MASTREGUNSMITH PROGRAM ANY GOOD?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
11
Hello everyone,I have a gunsmith school question. Has anyone tried the AGI Master Gunsmith program? I sent away for their information packet. It seems worth the $15,000 for the full program. Not only do you get AGI's DVD instruction videos, but you also get a nice set of tools that include a table top lath. If you want I will let you know what else the course includes. Any replys would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

Larry:)
 
No.

If you want to be a gunsmith go to a gunsmithing school such as the Colorado School of Trades.

Don't waste your time and money on "at home" courses. They are a joke.
 
AGI MASTER GUNSMITH PROGRAM QUESTION

That school is not very far from me i live in Aurora CO, they are in Lakewood CO. Do you know anything about them? What is their reputation? Has anyone out there graduated from that school? Did they get a job after they finished? Any comments welcome and needed.

Thanks:)

Larry
 
School details

I have been to the Colorado School of Trades, many years ago. While I was there, the course of 2700+ hours was changed to about 2000 hours for incoming students. I was told that this happened because of the excess VA expenditure to have GI-Bill expense-paid school for so many Veterans that never got any where being Gunsmiths. So many would go to school for an extended vacation, rather than schooling, so the gub'ment pressed, and the school had to realize that losing VA certification would put a crimp on the budget.

All the poor pay-as-you-go students would be forced into the same shortened program. The main difference that I found by talking to the new students was the reduction in the tedious polishing hand-work, and almost halving the stock carving. The level was to carve and fit 5 stocks, with only one being a semi-inlet (semi-shaped), and new students doing 2 from a blank with maybe finishing a semi-shaped buttstock as a third credit.

Now the school (when I last noticed) had a Farrier course (horseshoe fitter) and the gun course was at 1200 hours. That is less than half of the time I spent. If they were efficient in removing superfluous detailing, you might be able to gain more than it might seem at first glance.

The most important thing is the level of skill that the teachers have and how well that they can impart that knowledge.
Case in point: the school had a top-notch instructor for the D & F (design & function) for days and nights. I attended at both times. Doc Kroekle on nights would call for the classroom time (as opposed to shop floor time) by calling over the P.A.---- "BANKRUPTCY CLASS". Nothing like calling a ..... a ....., huh?

The one teacher for beginners would sit at the bench drawing engraving patterns while he waited for you to bring your project for him to examine or grade. Not very pro-active, but it probably was his second job, and was constantly tired from the daily grind for 2 shifts. Another beginner (BASIC class) was a likeable character, but did not seem nearly as well qualified as the long-timer Senior BASIC instructor, at least in some points. You would pick and choose who to ask about something, depending on the difficulty level.

Some of the work was helpful to learn, but much was not designed to help you reach the level of progress to make money. If it takes you a long time to polish a gun for a blue job in school, so what? Try to make money on the outside when you haven't been shown the best way to do efficient and speedy but proper polishing, for example, and your boss will not be pleased that he paid you for 15 hours to finish a gun that he charged $150 to the customer.

I had to polish guns in BASIC class to a mirror polish BY HAND, and they would only issue you a 1/4 sheet of wet-or-dry of each grit. If that paper wore down, push harder, rub longer. In the real world, you would at least use a piece only until it was starting to slow its cut, and grab a new piece. Time is money, at $40 an hour, for example. A piece of paper, a dull drill bit that costs a few dollars to replace, a few special-shape or varied cut files, all the little things that help you work faster, when cost of implements pales in comparison to the loss of productivity; these are tips that I would wish had been emphasized.

I personally had more machine time, especially on the milling machine, than any student known to the teachers, that didn't have an outside job in a shop. I did special projects for the teachers to get more time at brazing, milling, tool sharpening, etc. I got very good at free-hand grinding dull drill bits, and got extra credit from the machine shop instructors.

While I was there, a student came in that had already graduated from the school in Pennsylvania, but came to CST to learn to FIX guns, not carve animals in the sides of rifle stocks. That had been old hat for a long time, but was one of the courses at PSG, just not enough of the mechanical fixing. He was one of the faster-progressing students, for obvious reasons. A few others were real speed demons, too, but most were average, a few were slow and methodical, but a few were time-wasting bastards that made things plod along whenever they would hang around. Watch out for them in your shop, if there is anyone that seems to make progress difficult, give them a broom and point them to the far corner.

So many lessons have to be learned the hard way, and I will admit that my first jobs were done at a woefully slow pace, since the apprehension to do good quality restricted the freedom to plow at full speed in unknown fields. After a bit of outside experience, things got more comfortable and speed was easier. I couldn't have had a better chance than I did by going to CST, but if I hadn't been fortunate enough to try to apply at every single shop in the area, and find the only opening that happened to have been vacant for 6 weeks (with the work piling up), I might never gotten anywhere for a good bit longer.

I have been writing articles about guns and gun work, recently, and you can see a few of them in among my previous posts, along with pictures and a belly full of my informed opinions, at least.

Check out my previous posts for the extended lesson in logical analysis. I do expect to be writing gunsmith articles for the AGI magazine at some point, as well as other publications.

[email protected]
 
AGI MASTER GUNSMITH PROGRAM QUESTION

:) So, Kirbythegunsmith, the CST was a good school for a gunsmith wannabe?
You sound kinda like you approved of the school back in the day, but are not so enthused about what its become. Also what do you think of the AGI MASTER GUNSMITH PROGRAM.

THANKS

LARRY
 
Details continue

I started out to give the facts the best that I knew them, and let the readers decide from the best information that I could offer.
I do not have a familiarity with the AGI video and course set, but do know that the American Gunsmith monthly magazine is where I would intend to have gunsmith-work specific articles, if they would so choose to print my input.
Some of the articles and details that I see in the AG leave me with the impression that I could have done a better job of explaining, or had an alternate method, or other exception. I do not think that of most of the information, just some. I do learn some things from particular articles, and have talked to Chick Blood several times about particular details of some of my writings and magazine impressions, and really do look forward to receiving the next issue, each month.
Theoretically, it may be possible to learn enough from non-traditional school materials, but still would boil down to the detail level of specific subjects, basic ability of the student, and so forth. Even a school-trained graduate has no sure easy road, since I did see a number of graduates from various technical schools and colleges find the job market looking askance at anybody not already journeyman qualified. The ones that seemed to have the most consistent future possibilities were the A & P students going to aircraft repair school. I suppose that would have to do with the passing of an FAA cert. test.
I would say that the best chance would still revolve around being able to get a job at a shop known for doing quality work, after completion of whatever course that you choose. I would have had a much rougher time trying to open my own shop without some initial field experience in an established shop.
The guy that actually recommended the CST to me, and half-joked that I should come back and take over his shop after completion, didn't even want to talk to me 2 years later when I got back. I did get hired at a competitor, and then found out that his shop had an atrocious reputation for needing their repairs, repaired! I had to do a number of them, myself, and the same for some of the other local shops.

If I had to start now, what would I do? Probably similar to what I did, in the first place. I went to mechanic school to gain the diagnostic knowledge skills and mindset of a mechanic, first. I figured if I could take apart a car, a gun would seem a whole lot simpler, plus, I needed to learn how to think differently to break from the public school mould of indoctrination, not education. A thinking populace would have thrown the bums out of the power circles, long ago.
The problem with guns is the lack of consistent knowledge in the form of reference books, unlike most cars. Vehicle reference books from Haynes, Clymers, and others will have some details that may assist a talented amateur in the disassembly and diagnosis, but they never give a level of information to make a beginner able to have confidence that they can do this, all by themselves.
That is the best reason to make me think that I picked the right order to attend the schools, and where I was able to see that an Associate Degree in Automotive Technology didn't cut much ice with the mechanic shops. I did get hired to do just the basics, with all that other talent slowly withering, due to hard-headed stupidvisors (or is it stuporvisors?)

I may have one more syllogy after this one.

[email protected]
 
If you just want to tinker I am sure AGI would be fine . But I don't know if you would know what a good job is withought a competent teacher, do they grade it ? When I went to Lassen Bob Dunlap "AGI guy" did all of the DFR classes and would grade your work . We also had John Vest for stock making and engraving . Your work needs to look good to another "competent" gunsmith . Plus if you are going to make money it can't take you all day to take a gun apart and put it back together . At the beginning of learning about each gun we had to be able to put them together is a certain amount of time . If I remember right we had to be able to put an auto 5 together in about 4 min. But on the + side I have never met a guy who knows more about fixing guns
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top