Is State Park Carry Legal in North Carolina?Future NPS Carry May Be at Stake

[Duke Junior]

This was being discussed on another thread regarding whether National Park carry will become a reality.
The thread was eventually closed because it started veering OT onto the subject of State Park carry particularly in North Carolina.I was a party to that veer.
But this is important in all 26 states that now appear to disallow carry in State Parks.Under the current NPS debate IF carry is to be allowed in Nat.Parks and Monuments in your state,that state must NOW allow SP carry.If not, you will continue to remain defenseless in NPS territory.
gc70 and myself found 2 conflicting Statutes in NC:

Quote:Duke
SECTION .0900 - FIREARMS: EXPLOSIVES: FIRES: ETC.
15A NCAC 12B .0901 FIREARMS: WEAPONS: EXPLOSIVES
(a) No person except authorized park employees, their agents, or contractors, or officers of the state shall carry or possess
firearms, airguns, bows and arrows, sling shots, or lethal missiles of any kind within any park.

Quote:gc70
This Rule in the North Carolina Administrative Code is very interesting, particularly since it appears to have been pre-empted by subsequent statutory law.

Quote:
§ 14‑415.23. Statewide uniformity.

It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks. (1995, c. 398, s. 1.)

So,obviously these Statutes are at odds with themselves.Someone on that other thread,danmoultrie,(thank you!) is working on getting a AG opinion.If this is the case in NC,conflict of law may be in effect in other states.
Of course ,the ultimate goal is to have the NPS throw out the SP factor in all states.It makes no sense and in most states that allow carry ,National Forests are not off limits,including NC.
So we must continue to push the NPS for the most sensible carry rules possible.Hopefully I am not being overly optimistic,but this seems to be a reachable goal in the near future.Or am I being naive?
Comments and corrections will be appreciated.

 

[misANTHrope]

§ 14‑415.23. Statewide uniformity.

It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks. (1995, c. 398, s. 1.)

This might provide for some legal foothold for the parks people, but I'd call it kind of tenuous. You'd have to argue that all local governments were specifically allowing the park service to prohibit firearms- sounds iffy to me.

I'd say that it's more likely, given the info in these threads, that the parks can prohibit open carry, but not concealed. Which, to me, begs the question: what if you accidentally get exposed?

Another interesting question: If the only outright prohibition is in the park rules, exactly how much legal weight does that rule carry? Would violating that rule constitute an actual crime, or would it just get you booted from the park?

I wish a possibility like this existed in TN- but no such luck. Our code specifically lists state parks as off-limits to carry. But hopefully some good will come of this NC issue- if indeed the parks have no authority to prohibit CC, and the NPS rules get changed... well, Balsam Mountain in the Smokies is one of my favorite camping spots, and it'd be nice to know that I could for sure carry when I went up there.

 

[Smurfslayer]

Generally speaking, a 'more specific' statute will trump a general statute, and a more recently passed one will superceded a previously passed one. ALL administrative code that is in conflict with an actual statutory law are superceded regardless of specificity or date. IOW it appears that NC preempted the parks here with regard to ENACTING a prohibition, however, they have not enacted a new regulation since the preemption law, correct?

Unfortunately the law doesn't repeal previously passed regulations, nor does it appear to apply retroactively.

I think the State Parks still have a legally defensible regulation in NC.

 

[danmoultrie]

Finally got an answer from the AG, they will only issue advisory opinions to state officials. Seems to me that Lewis Ledford (NC Parks director) would have to ask for an AG opinion. As an Easley appointee/lifetime bureaucrat, I'm not sure he would be on our side or care enough to ask the AG if he was.
If smurfslayer is correct in his analysis above, we may have some standing in the administrative code:

http://reports.oah.state.nc.us/ncac/title%2015a%20-%20environment%20and%20natural%20resources/chapter%2012%20-%20parks%20and%20recreation%20area%20rules/subchapter%20b/15a%20ncac%2012b%20.0901.html

It appears that the section of administrative code was amended in 1999. Since the legislative code was passed before the the AC was amended that might be one way to make our case. Hey, we can use loopholes too, right? My brother in law (NC lawyer) is going to take a look and see what he can find in the case law.