KMDavenport
Member
I love my CZ's, some of the best pointing SxS I've ever used in the field.
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Is the SxS dead these days?
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Has someone proven that to be the case? Or is it internet wisdom?
Milkmaster
Member
Nice looking SxS. The length of pull looks long to me. Is that an illusion or is it really long?
Milkmaster
Member
I thought of a question for double trigger guns. Is the length of pull usually measured from the rear trigger or the front trigger? Not a big deal, it just occured to me to ask. Never really thought about that before.
John Joseph
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Came from a gunsmith. This concerning older SxSs without chrome bores and not made to handle steel shot, not the newer ones.
Olon
Member
I bought a century arms coach gun and that thing was a total piece of junk. I still like sxs but if I get another it's going to be a nicer one. Has to have hammers too so stoegers are out.
KMDavenport
Member
It's the camera making it look longer than it truly is. The LOP on that shotgun is 14 1/8" if I remember right.
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DM~
Member
bangswitch
Member
I can't see that it really matters; your hand position on the grip doesn't change when you pull the front or the back trigger, but i guess they have to measure from a specific point.
Oh, about the SxS being dead? Make a visit to Mid-South Guns, in Wagram, NC. I never saw so many side-by-side shotguns in one place in my life. One whole wall of the shop was lined with them in two rows, one over the other. Must have been 300 of them at least.
George P
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A shotgun with a straight, aka English Style, grip is meant to be shot with a longer LOP than one with a tightly curved radius grip. It allows for a longer offhand grip as well for better swing dynamics.
George P
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Actually, I DO change my hand position with DTs. It slides ever so slightly backwards for the second trigger.
SwampWolf
Member
It doesn't matter for most people. You move your finger, not your hand for a quick second shot. A lot of people mistakenly believe that the "English-style", straight grip was designed so that shooters could slide their hand to and fro to better address the triggers. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ask any one who has tried for a second shot at a flushed grouse...
DM~
Member
cdb1
Member
Good info. I’ve wondered before why some SxS’s have what seemed to be a longer LOP than is the norm.
Virginian
Member
I don't move my hand to fire the second barrel. If you do, that's just fine with me, too.
I have had guns with double and single selective triggers, and find it really doesn't matter to me IF the gun has good swing dynamics. I do prefer a straight grip on a field gun but for waterfowl with a 12 or 10 gauge I did find that a pistol grip did give a little better control with heavy guns and stout recoil.
O/Us are the current "in" guns. Every one wants a "good cheap" O/U to impress their equally unknowledgeable friends. The ONLY O/U that I have shot (and I have shot a slew of them) in 40 years that I found I really liked even a little bit was a little scaled frame Beretta 28 gauge. I just don't like O/Us. I also ran thru over 40 9mm semi auto pistols before I finally decided I am just not a 9mm semi guy.
The "two different chokes" isn't as big a deal to many as you may be led to believe. I used to live literally across the road from a major Sporting Clays course. During a National Tournament, I followed some of the top shooters around. The guy who won changed ONE choke tube, on ONE station. I talked to him and he said he had LM tubes in both barrels. May not have been perfect in all cases, but he had more important things to concentrate on than worrying about thousandths of choke. Judging by the number of guys with pouches of choke tubes all meticulously labelled I don't know he was in the majority.
I love a good SxS. To me they feel great and look that way too. Memories of wild quail and a 20 or 28 gauge Bernardelli Gamecock are a vision of a slice of Heaven. I don't think that will ever die to many.
I have had guns with double and single selective triggers, and find it really doesn't matter to me IF the gun has good swing dynamics. I do prefer a straight grip on a field gun but for waterfowl with a 12 or 10 gauge I did find that a pistol grip did give a little better control with heavy guns and stout recoil.
O/Us are the current "in" guns. Every one wants a "good cheap" O/U to impress their equally unknowledgeable friends. The ONLY O/U that I have shot (and I have shot a slew of them) in 40 years that I found I really liked even a little bit was a little scaled frame Beretta 28 gauge. I just don't like O/Us. I also ran thru over 40 9mm semi auto pistols before I finally decided I am just not a 9mm semi guy.
The "two different chokes" isn't as big a deal to many as you may be led to believe. I used to live literally across the road from a major Sporting Clays course. During a National Tournament, I followed some of the top shooters around. The guy who won changed ONE choke tube, on ONE station. I talked to him and he said he had LM tubes in both barrels. May not have been perfect in all cases, but he had more important things to concentrate on than worrying about thousandths of choke. Judging by the number of guys with pouches of choke tubes all meticulously labelled I don't know he was in the majority.
I love a good SxS. To me they feel great and look that way too. Memories of wild quail and a 20 or 28 gauge Bernardelli Gamecock are a vision of a slice of Heaven. I don't think that will ever die to many.
I love S×S but not the price for a decent one. Cant justify $700-1000 for a good one. Read the cheap ones are well cheap and sometimes you get lucky. Don't want to take that chance. So my 590 fills my shotgun roll for now. Maybe in the future.
SwampWolf
Member
I'm not saying that anyone is right or wrong when the question has to do with whether you do (or should) move your hand when pulling the second trigger on a double-trigger shotgun having a "straight" stock. And if you do, well, you do. But I made a brief foray into some of my books on shotguns regarding this question and here's what I found:
Shotguns and Shooting by the late Michael McIntosh. Author McIntosh argued, "...Actually you can find (statements) either implying or stating flat out that you have to slide your hand backward on the grip to pull the rear trigger. I don't know where this got started, but if you shoot a two-triggered gun, you know better. If you've never fired one, take my word for it: you trip both triggers without moving anything but your finger...To fire both barrels you simply pull the front trigger, slide your finger over it and on to the back one. It's all one motion, nothing moves but your trigger finger..."
And later, "...This is why the classic English game gun has a straight-hand stock-not because it's aesthetically more pleasing nor because British stockmakers don't know how to carve pistol grips, and certainly not to allow you to slide your hand backward to pull the second trigger. (emphasis mine)
The Double Shotgun by Don Zutz. Author Zutz opined: "...the straight grip is widely misunderstood among modern shotgunners of the Western Hemisphere...(English stockmakers) developed and retained the straight grip because it met practical and theoretical needs on twin-triggered doubles having the normal (for those times) splinter fore-end. This does not especially include the supposed need for hand slippage as the shooter switches from one trigger to another, although that has traditionally been a justification for the straight grip. Trigger switching can be done as easily without sliding the entire hand, and many shooters who believe they need slippage room actually don't move their trigger hand as much as they believe they do, if at all..."
All this is not to say that the "experts" are always right, which makes dissenters always wrong. I'm just presenting prevailing points of view.
Shotguns and Shooting by the late Michael McIntosh. Author McIntosh argued, "...Actually you can find (statements) either implying or stating flat out that you have to slide your hand backward on the grip to pull the rear trigger. I don't know where this got started, but if you shoot a two-triggered gun, you know better. If you've never fired one, take my word for it: you trip both triggers without moving anything but your finger...To fire both barrels you simply pull the front trigger, slide your finger over it and on to the back one. It's all one motion, nothing moves but your trigger finger..."
And later, "...This is why the classic English game gun has a straight-hand stock-not because it's aesthetically more pleasing nor because British stockmakers don't know how to carve pistol grips, and certainly not to allow you to slide your hand backward to pull the second trigger. (emphasis mine)
The Double Shotgun by Don Zutz. Author Zutz opined: "...the straight grip is widely misunderstood among modern shotgunners of the Western Hemisphere...(English stockmakers) developed and retained the straight grip because it met practical and theoretical needs on twin-triggered doubles having the normal (for those times) splinter fore-end. This does not especially include the supposed need for hand slippage as the shooter switches from one trigger to another, although that has traditionally been a justification for the straight grip. Trigger switching can be done as easily without sliding the entire hand, and many shooters who believe they need slippage room actually don't move their trigger hand as much as they believe they do, if at all..."
All this is not to say that the "experts" are always right, which makes dissenters always wrong. I'm just presenting prevailing points of view.
I can understand the sentiment of protecting Great Grad Pa's shotgun but the Nitro Specials are a pretty solid design and not prone to breakage. I have one, though not a family heirloom, and shoot it regularly. No high velocity stuff and I hold the latch in the open position when closing to minimize the wear and never dry fire it. Replacing a firing pin requires a special tool and a lot of cuss words. Ask me how I know.
Mine is choked cylinder/full and swings nicely.
Barbaroja
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If it was my only 20ga, it would be in regular use but it has filled the roll of a farm Defense shotgun that my wife can handle the recoil of if I’m not there to use the 12 lol
It is the only family heirloom we have in this clan of mine and I’m damn sure not going to be the one to let something happen to it.
It’s a great gun, no doubt.
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