IS there a "mental health records loophole" in North Carolina?

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Green Lantern

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The antis can't even let me eat my dad-burn Cheerios in peace! I was reading the county paper this morning (usually neutral or even pro-gun - I've NEVER had a letter turned down) and came across the political cartoon: a smoking Beretta 92 with "NC Pistol Permits" on the grip and an arrow pointing to the trigger that's labeled "Mental Health Records Loophole."

Now, I'm pretty sure that when I got my NC CCW, one of the things I consented to in the paperwork was to allow the Sheriff access to my medical records, or at least my mental health records!

Now, to me the 'toon isn't clear at all as to whether it means CCW or a pistol purchase permit (also issued by the Sheriff to buy a handgun unless you have a CCW already). Those, I'm not sure about these days.

ETA - The 'toon is signed "Draughon, The Insider." I'm trying to think back to see if this might actually be a local artist. The toons usually deal with state issues, though - IIRC!
 
IANAL and laws vary widely by state

Now, to me the 'toon isn't clear at all as to whether it means CCW or a pistol purchase permit

Given the context it would be refering to acquiring a handgun not the carrying of it IMHO.

I'm pretty sure that when I got my NC CCW, one of the things I consented to in the paperwork was to allow the Sheriff access to my medical records, or at least my mental health records!

I do not know NC's laws but in most states I've lived in the answer would be no, not unless there was legal involvement of some kind, an involuntary admission, protection for self, an arrest, court order etc... something where a LEO and/or a court official was involved.


This is a real tough issue on the public perception side and on possible future restrictions of 2A. Reality as we are all too well aware of is that "There are always enough firearms to arm the madmen of a society".

Can someone explain to me why removing 10 million illegal aliens from the US is obviously impossible and removing 100 million handguns is achievable :confused: :confused:

I would love to ask my sisterinlaw that question:evil: :banghead: :cuss:

NukemJim
 
NC loophole? Yes and no. Only 22 states report ANY mental health info to NICS and NC is one of them. OTOH, the 22 states report different levels of info. John
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Posted on Thu, Apr. 26, 2007

N.C. law impedes gun-sale checks

By Jim Nesbitt and Jessica Rocha
McClatchy Newspapers

Federal law makes it a felony to knowingly sell a gun to anyone judged to have a dangerous mental illness, but thousands of people involuntarily committed to psychiatric institutions by N.C. courts aren't included in a national database aimed at preventing such sales, state officials said.

Court clerks across North Carolina keep their commitment records under wraps because of privacy provisions in state mental health statutes, undermining the effectiveness of the FBI-run National Instant Criminal Background Check System [NICS] used by gun dealers to determine whether a customer can legally purchase a firearm.

"We have no authority or directive to report this information to anybody," said Dick Ellis, spokesman for the N.C. Administrative Office of the Courts, the agency that oversees courthouse operations across the state. "Unless we're told directly to do so, we don't give our records over to anybody."

In the wake of last week's killing spree at Virginia Tech University by student Seung-Hui Cho, the availability of involuntary commitment orders and other court rulings related to mental health on the NICS database has become a major issue, pitting privacy concerns against public safety fears.

Despite a 2005 court declaration that Cho was a danger to himself, he was able to legally purchase two handguns, including the Glock 19 pistol he used to kill 32 Virginia Tech students and himself.

A Virginia judge ordered Cho to undergo a mental health evaluation, but this ruling didn't show up on the background check when he bought his pistols.

Federal law prohibits gun sales to people who fall under 10 categories, including convicted felons, illegal immigrants, subjects of domestic violence restraining orders and anyone who has been committed to a mental institution or ruled "mentally defective."

But the 10-year-old instant background check system depends on states to forward information to the federal database, particularly court orders related to mental health that are often kept confidential. In the year ending last July, there were 56,124 confidential special proceedings in North Carolina courts, including involuntary and voluntary commitments to mental institutions and hearings to suspend the licenses of attorneys, according to records with the N.C. Administrative Office of the Courts.

Experts say legislators have already created several exemptions to the mental health privacy provisions, including a requirement that courts report an involuntary commitment for substance abuse to the Department of Motor Vehicles. Unless legislators provide a similar exemption for law enforcement, though, court clerks won't forward these records to the NICS database for firearms purchases, Ellis said.

As a result of this cloak of privacy, North Carolina judicial or law enforcement actions based on mental health fall under two primary categories in the NICS database, said John Aldridge, special deputy attorney general and leading authority on state firearms law. And both are limited by the diligence of the local official in charge of the records.

One is the open court result in a criminal case, such as being found not guilty by reason of insanity, which would make it illegal for a person to purchase or possess a firearm or for someone to sell them one. The other is the record of denials for mental health reasons by North Carolina sheriffs on applications for pistol purchase permits and permits for concealed carry of pistols.

North Carolina sheriffs, who are responsible for conducting background checks on applicants for both permits, can check involuntary commitment records on concealed carry permits because applicants waive their privacy rights. They aren't allowed to check involuntary commitment records for pistol purchase permits, but may learn of such orders by other means and deny permits under the broad discretion granted them by North Carolina law.

It's also up to the sheriff's discretion whether to forward their permit denials to the NICS database. So far, North Carolina sheriffs have forwarded 319 mental health-related denials to the NICS database since it was created in 1998, said Aldridge. On Thursday, the House will consider a bill that would allow sheriffs to inform other sheriffs if they deny a pistol permit for mental health reasons.

Though it keeps involuntary commitments confidential, North Carolina is one of 22 states that report mental-health-related information to the NICS, federal officials say.

But the number of North Carolina filings pales beside the 80,000 mental-health related entries made to the NCIS database by Virginia.

Since the killings at Virginia Tech, there have been calls on the state and national level to make involuntary commitment orders an exception to medical privacy laws - something both mental health advocates and gun rights adherents successfully opposed in 2002 when this measure was introduced in North Carolina.

"We need to lower the threshold so that all people who show signs of being a danger to themselves or others are reported," said Lisa Price, executive director of North Carolinians Against Gun Violence, a gun-control group that pushed the 2002 legislation as part of an anti-gun trafficking package. "Keeping guns out of the wrong hands - that's our goal."

But F. Paul Valone, president of Grass Roots North Carolina, a gun rights organization that opposed the 2002 legislation, vows to fight any attempt to remove the confidentiality cloak from involuntary commitment orders.

"The intention behind that legislation was to foment additional gun control in North Carolina, and we won't tolerate that," Valone said.

UNC-Chapel Hill law professor Mark Botts, an expert on mental health records and confidentiality at UNC-Chapel Hill, said legislators have already written several other exemptions into the law.

For example, courts are required to notify the Division of Motor Vehicles if a person has been involuntarily committed for substance abuse so officials can look into whether driving privileges "raise a public safety concern" and should be revoked, Botts said.

© 2007 MyrtleBeachOnline.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com
 
Being that Cho was not a CCW holder, I guess it does make more sense that they refer to purchase permits. Easy enough to address both if I write a letter, though.

A Virginia judge ordered Cho to undergo a mental health evaluation, but this ruling didn't show up on the background check when he bought his pistols.

HmmmmMMMMmmmmmmm....sounds like the judge was trusting Cho to go to the shrink of his OWN accord. If he was being committed, if the judge thought he was REALLY a danger, wouldn't he have ordered Cho put into custody to make SURE he got mental help????

North Carolina sheriffs, who are responsible for conducting background checks on applicants for both permits, can check involuntary commitment records on concealed carry permits because applicants waive their privacy rights. They aren't allowed to check involuntary commitment records for pistol purchase permits, but may learn of such orders by other means and deny permits under the broad discretion granted them by North Carolina law

Thanks, that looks like what I was needing! Er...IF it's accurate, that is. We're "shall issue" CCW, but I guess they have more lattitude for purchase permits? Now that it's daylight again, I guess I could call the sheriff's office and ask them.
 
Draft of letter to editor, what do you think?
The cartoon appearing in last week's 'Journal' was a bit misleading, saying that NC has a "mental health records loophole" for "pistol permits." For starters, the 'toon does not make it clear if it is referring to permits to buy a handgun in NC, or to actually carry one around. Luckily, I should be able to shed the light on BOTH situations well within my word allotment! To buy a handgun in NC, one must have a permit issued by the county sheriff. True, the sheriff cannot check mental health records on an applicant for a purchase permit. But, by law the sheriff does have a lot of discretion to deny purchase permits for any number of reasons.
On the other hand, when someone applies for a 'carry permit' for a handgun, they sign papers that allow the sheriff to check (among other things) an applicant's mental health records.
Maybe this cartoonist would be more productive if he spent his time calling attention to "problems" that actually existed?
 
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