Is this a reason to semi forcefully put a small gun in a female frd/relative's purse?

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Kimber, I understand your frustration. My older sister was the victim of a sexual assault. Afterward, our Dad gave her his .38. She wouldn't keep it. Then her husband bought her first a little .32 auto and finally one of those tiny .22 magnum revolvers. She didn't want any of them.

Should they have committed what is basically another assault by browbeating her, trying to force her to carry around a piece of metal she did not want? No they should not have and did not. You should not either.

Respecting your sister's right to live her life the way she wants to is not an academic idea that "flies out the window" as soon as YOU feel she is in danger.

How would you react if she decided to throw your right to choose out the window and forcibly took your gun away because she was sincerely afraid you might shoot yourself?
 
If you have that ability then why not use whatever persuasion you have to get her to take a class and get a permit?
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Because getting her to accept an object in her purse is WAAAAAY different (and much easier) than dragging a non interested person to some stupid class, paying a bunch of fees from money the family may not have, etc.
 
Should they have committed what is basically another assault by browbeating her, trying to force her to carry around a piece of metal she did not want? No they should not have and did not. You should not either.
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I loved your post until you said that. I have suggested no "assault" or "browbeating." I'll never understand why I have to keep repeating certain things. Your father and her husband did pretty much what I'm talking about. Did they ever quietly slip it in her purse? If she physically handed the .38 back to him then that's all they can do.
 
I would suggest something like this instead...

http://www.pepperblaster.com/

As others have stated, it is HER choice; there is no way around that. And that doesn't change if it's someone you're close to.

The only way she will ever come around is if you let her make her own decision. Otherwise, even if she were ambivalent about it, she might do the opposite of what you suggest just to preserve her own personal sovereignty.

My wife would still be an anti today if I had tried to force her to carry a gun before she made that decision herself. Instead, I let her make her own choices on the issue, and she eventually got a CHL on her own, but even if she didn't, it would still have been her choice.
 
Because getting her to accept an object in her purse is WAAAAAY different than dragging a non interested person to some stupid class, paying a bunch of fees, etc.
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And you've just hit on it again. She has not accepted the mindset of using a firearm to defend her life.

That decision can't come in the moment as some kind of instant enlightenment.

If she won't take some stupid class and pay a bunch of fees she won't reach and grab that gun when it counts.
 
That decision can't come in the moment as some kind of instant enlightenment.

If she won't take some stupid class and pay a bunch of fees she won't reach and grab that gun when it counts.
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Could not disagree more. Pointing and shooting is easy. "Instant enlightenment" is not necessary. Take some women shooting and watch how quickly they figure it out. Do you REALLY believe that a woman would rather be raped than reach for a tool in her purse? Wow. I have no idea (besides TV dramas) where you would get an idea like that. Women tend to become VERY practical very quickly when some thug is following them. I just don't want a woman I know to get into that practical mindset (which bypasses her normal resistance to taking the ccw class) only to realize there's no tool to grab.
 
Kimber45acp said:
Oh boy. No, we have the same views on tyranny, you are just applying that term where it does not belong. You have chosen to use a different definition of FORCE than I am. For some reason, you've conjured up some image of me tying her up or something. Since I cannot use the word "force" without you misunderstanding me, let me use the phrase "very pushy until she understands that her safety is non negotiable." Again, for the third time, if she's so hostile to the idea that she takes it out of her purse every time, then you've done all you can. Please don't make me repeat this again because THAT would be tyranny ;)
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No we obviously don't have even close to the same views on tyranny.

Mental domination, which is what you're trying to achieve, is a far greater form of tyranny than physical. Physical domination only restricts what you can do with your body, mental domination restricts how you think. It's only afterwards people realize that they were restricted in their thinking in the first place. Go ask former victims of domestic abuse, they'll say they don't know why they put up with the beatings for x years now.
 
Do you REALLY believe that a woman would rather be raped than reach for a tool in her purse?
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That's not what I said. In the middle of a rape is too late to reach for the gun.

Without training and some thought ahead of time on how to recognize a deteriorating situation, the gun won't do any good.
 
That's not what I said. In the middle of a rape is too late to reach for the gun.

Without training and some thought ahead of time on how to recognize a deteriorating situation, the gun won't do any good.
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You said: "...she won't reach and grab that gun when it counts." and I find that completely incorrect.

THEN you use the phrase "in the middle of a rape." Come on man, reason with me will ya. I'm obviously talking about the vast majority of cases where she can SEE someone following her on the street or in the parking garage. Obviously "in the middle of a rape" is too late. Sheesh.
 
Simply no, for many of the reasons already stated.

On another note. That person, I won't dare call him a man, IMO has lost his right to have balls. They should be cut off and fed to him raw.

That is about the most humane thing I can think of to do to him.

Shawn
 
I'm obviously talking about the vast majority of cases where she can SEE someone following her on the street or in the parking garage.
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You see the gun as some magical talisman and statistically that just turns out to be incorrect. Not sure what else to say about this one, I do wish you the best with whatever you decide but I really hope you could use more persuasion to convince her to get some kind of training.
 
I'll cast a NO vote, too.

Even if you can make her carry it, you can't make her use it. If she doesn't have the mindset to take responsibility for her own safety, she doesn't have the mindset to pull the trigger. You'd just lose the gun to whatever miscreant attacks her, and it would do her no good at all.

A wise old man once said:

"Carrying a gun doesn't mean that you're armed any more than owning a piano means you're a musician."
 
Did they ever quietly slip it in her purse?
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My dad put his .38 in her car's glove box. She left it there for a few weeks, then brought it back. He begged her to keep it. She said no. He yelled. She cried. So he WAS guilty of browbeating. He felt awful and stopped.

I don't believe her husband ever tried to slip a gun in her purse. What possible good would that do?

"very pushy until she understands that her safety is non negotiable."
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Not to pick nits, but that's a decent description of low level browbeating. And her safety IS negotiable. At least as far as what SHE chooses to do about it. Your chauvinistic attitude that you know better than she does what she should do to stay safe is doing your cause less than zero good.

As a brother the only thing you can do is offer your opinion, quietly and once. Then offer to help her if SHE decides a firearm is the right way to go. Anything else is likely to harden her resolve. It would mine.

And I'm sure you know this, but if ,God forbid, something should happen, don't even think about saying, "This wouldn't have happened if you had a gun."
 
While you have good intentions, I think in this case a can of OC spray or a tazer would be more accepted and more legal. Its still better than nothing.
 
Another woman's perspective: The "Me Tarzan; You Jane" attitude is really off-putting.

The know-it-all man who tries to "convince" me that I have to do something I don't want to do is not a man I'm going to want to spend much time around. He will also forfeit any trust I might have had in him.

Gun-in-purse is not a guarantee of safety. I have been mugged. Having a gun in my purse wouldn't have been much help, since it was the purse the mugger grabbed. I managed to hang on to the shoulder strap and ended up in a tug of war with the mugger. I hit him upside the head a few times with my briefcase, but after he threatened to shoot me I let him have the purse. He didn't have a gun in his hand, and I assume the threat was a bluff, but it was a bluff I chose not to call.

Please give the women in your life the respect they deserve even if you don't agree with their life choices.
 
Kimber, one of the issues here really is the changes in attitudes she will likely experience if one so forcefully tried to put upon her a (your) judgement about her decision-making.

In short, she may well become more resistant to providing for her own self-protection--much less developing the skillset and mindset. Meanwhile, work on your own frustration with this subject--however you will.

Jim H.
 
I don't know where to begin..........
Forcing (your word, not mine) anyone to do anything (toddlers and senile folks excepted) is just plain wrong.......
Projecting your fear of a guy in MA to Utah is also wrong....
Guns are not talismans, no matter how well a gal shoots while being instructed at the range, it is no measure of how the will react to a threat on the street.....

And the fact that you are acting so superior just p1$$es her of and won't further your cause.

I have no control over other peoples fate. Neither do you..
 
Karen said:
Please give the women in your life the respect they deserve even if you don't agree with their life choices.
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Karen, the hostility in your post will make it very difficult to have a reasonable discussion. You have set me up as an enemy and then gone on a tangent in a very hostile fashion. As I've already stated, if she totally blocks, then there's no more I can do. HOWEVER, on something this important, I won't stop trying to persuade and push. If that is "not being respectful" in your book then so be it. I HAVE no respect for certain actions that put a woman in line to be a victim.

I can see all through this thread the effects of 50 years of feminism in many of the posts, even the men. Almost intentional misstatements and misrepresentations of what I've said. Several posters clearly coming from the mindset that men and women are somehow equal (meaning identical). Sad. Men and women are different. Some people here need to learn that most women actually APPRECIATE a man who takes charge, and does it in a nice but stern way.
 
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Guns are not talismans, no matter how well a gal shoots while being instructed at the range, it is no measure of how the will react to a threat on the street
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Wow, I never said a gun was a "talisman." I see we have another intentional misstatement of what I've said. I MERELY said that guns are not as complex as some people make them.

And the fact that you are acting so superior just p1$$es her of and won't further your cause.
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Wow I never encouraged "acting superior." More twisting of my words. Sometimes a man needs to put a stop to the B.S. and make sure that his beloved female family members have a tool (not "talisman" a TOOL) that they may need (again, unless she totally blocks you).
 
Not much better than being a rapist yourself if you show so little respect and insist on dominating their lives.
 
Gee I don't know Karen, the fact that it's coming from your WORDS. You're the one who has made several anti male statements (in case you've forgotten already, I'm talking about that very insulting way you referred to your father).
 
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