JB Bore Paste . . . .

[MEHavey]

I'm about to try saving that Winchester M-70/30-06 factory barrel whose troubles I wrote of two month back. If not salvagable (it shoots unpredictably good/bad between loads/days/sometimes the same load. (3/4" one time, 4" the next.) Bedding is tight and Winchester used that latest "hot-glue" technique which I can't see fault in. This will be the last ditch effort before rebarreling with a Krieger.

Before the start of firelapping (and between grits) you've got to get the barrel squeaky clean. NECO recommends either Rem Clean (which I haven't used or seen locally), and/or JB Bore Paste (which I have used/can get locally). Of the two, ligtly/properly used, what is the experience here on the Forum?

As a note, I've been using KG-12 to great effect to get copper out during routine cleaning after a day's shooting. where Butch's Bore Shine will still turn blue after even 6-9 wet patches on this barrel, KG-12 will clean it in one. (A Butch's-saturated patch used after KG-12 will come out essentially white.)

So the second question would be, if KG-12 gets the copper out, is there any reason to go to any fine abrasive like Rem Clean or JB's during firelapping?

 

[rcmodel]

I would forget the fire-lapping and just lap it with JB Bore Paste.

The end result will be the same without wearing out the rifling any more then necessary with the fire-lapping abrasive grit valve grinding compound.

3/4" one time, 4" the next.)

IMO: That is a bedding or load problem, not a barrel problem.

If it will shoot 3/4" groups even part of the time, there is nothing wrong with the barrel.

rc

 

[788Ham]

I've personally used JB's on an older rifle not taken very good care of. The Rem. model #33 in question, hadn't had the bore cleaned in God only knows how long, from the looks of the rest of it. I used Butch's bore cleaner to get the worst out of the bore, then took a bronze bore brush, filled about 1/2 of it with JB's and gave it a good workout, probably about 25 trips down the bore. Then used Hoppes to clean out the residue and clean patched it. The bore light just about blinded me, looking into the muzzle end, looked like a new dime. Try this method and see if it helps any, it sure cleaned up this 81 year old .22 rifle, and I might add, it sure shot accurate after that cleaning too! YMMV

 

[Pokyman]

I agree with rcmodel. It is most likely not the barrel. When you talk about the latest hot glue technique, you identified where to start looking for the problem.
A wise old gunsmith once told me that you fix the cheapest things first. Replacing the barrel is probably the most expensive fix. Go there last.
Checking the fit between the barrel and forend is cheap. Checking the bedding of the action to the stock is cheap and could lead to having the action glass bedded. This would get rid of the awful hot glue bed that might be your problem.
Let someone competent give your rifle a good look. Ask them if they would recommend firelapping.
Firelapping, if used on a good barrel will not help it shoot any better. If not used correctly all that will be accomplished is the factory barrel will lose what accuracy it has and a gunsmith will get some business. Hopefully you will understand that i am saying that firelapping should be used after all other reasonable efforts have been exhausted.
Replacing the barrel should be your last resort.
If that doesn't work then consider a new barrel.

 

[Al Thompson]

the awful hot glue bed

Agree completely. That is/was a terrible method of bedding a rifle. If you have the flimsy synthetic stock as well, that's what needs to be changed. I had two of those and threw both in the junk pile. A Bell and Carlson properly bedded gave me much better results.

 

[Kenneth]

The only time I use an abrasive cleaner is when I see evidence of rust in the bore like a reddish cleaning patch. When cleaning a bore I always start with a carbon remover as carbon is usually the first layer. Removing the carbon first takes some of the other crud with it, and makes the rest easier to remove.

I see no advantage at all to fire lapping a barrel that has already been shot out of. Unless you are the sort person that spends an hour making each cartridge so that you can shoot the private parts off of tiny insects from a thousand yards away, there really is no great advantage to fire lapping a new barrel (my own opinion. If youall come to my castle with pitchforksandtorches at least bring beer).
Have the bore slugged just to be sure of the land to land, and the groove to groove diameters. If the slug goes down harder as you push it from the muzzle to the breach that means the muzzle is wider than the breach and the barrel is junk.

I agree with the others, a good bedding job is the one thing that will most likely solve your accuracy problem.

 

[rodregier]

I've used Rem Clean and JB Bore Paste. They are similar enough in usage that I would find either acceptable. I think the JB is cheaper on a per-application basis.

 

[murf]

might want to check out the crown b4 u throw that barrel away.

murf

 

[MEHavey]

It is most likely not the barrel. When you talk about the latest hot glue technique, you identified where to start looking for the problem.

Am having the bedding replaced now. (Barrel was competently free-floated and trigger was good.)

Unless you are the sort person that spends an hour making each cartridge so that you can shoot the private parts off of tiny insects

Well, there you go....

check out the crown ...

Lathing a standard crown on it along with the bedding... even though I remember Hatcher once testing for crown defects to find that it merely deflected the POI point, not the grouping at that new point.

 

[wsm]

Model 70 woes

I own two Model 70s that came out of the New Haven plant before it shut down. One is 300WSM. The other is 7MM WSM. Both of these guns used the Hot Glue for bedding. The 300 shoots under .5 inches at 100 yards. The 7MM can barely manage 3.5 inches. When I took the action out of the stock, the hot glue came with it. The 7MM is on it's way to the shop for a good epoxy bedding job.

 

[cheygriz]

I've used JB on a dozen old guns with good satisfaction. I fire lapped one gun.

 

[x_wrench]

i have to agree with rc model, if it shoots 3/4" groups, even inconsistently, it does not seem logical that the barrel is the problem. if it was, how could it string together 3/4" groups periodicly. 1) are you using relatively fresh ammo, that is the same for each of your tests? if not, that could be all that is wrong. some guns are very fussy about what they like. in my 300 win mag, 1 grain of powder will make a 2" group size difference! all of the expensive factory ammo i have tried, shoots way worse than the cheap federal blue box ammo does (2&1/2" to 4" groups compared to 1.125" groups with the federal blue box ammo@ 100 yards). also, i have not seen any mention of the sights. are they tight? if you are using a scope, are all of the mounts tight? are you keeping the power level the same if it is a variable power scope? i have had one scope go bad on me. it is an easy enough thing to check, swap one out with another, get the settings close, and shoot several strings. also, many factory rifle barrels will warp as they heat up. i have a marlin 45/70 that actually forms the letter "J" as it heats up. if i shoot seven shots in a row with it, i get this. the first two, are almost on top of each other, as the barrel heats, it warps. my 300 mag will vertically string if shot fast repeatedly. these are hunting rifles. normally, you will get 2, maybe 3 shots off before an animal is gone, so that is acceptable behavior. it would not be for a target gun. a winchester 70 is a hunting rifle, so it may do that. i don't know about a hot glue bedding job, but to me, that sounds pretty chincy. it may work fine as long as things are cool, but as the barrel heats, so does the glue, and i would think it would allow the barrel to move wherever it wanted to once hot.

 

[matchgradeindustries]

I do recall working on a post 64 model 70 that had a bedding compound that almost looked like orange rubber cement, which had a whole hell of a lot of play in it. Devcon/Acraglass gel will be your best friend.