Just What I Need, Another Project. (Build My Own 1911)

[Mot45acp]

OK I feel that I have maxed out on AR-15s. I have built in every configuration except the one I'm currently waiting on a tax stamp. The reason I build my own is I am an hourly man without a lot of money. If I want a high dollar AR I have to build it piece by piece, paycheck by paycheck.

Anyway on to the point, I could never afford a high dollar 1911. I have been turned off of the platform due to reliability. This had forced me to sell/trade off what could have been great guns. This is due to my lack of knowledge of the internal workings of the gun. This has led me to one conclusion: Build my own.

I dont even know where to start. I know I need a matched frame and slide. I live in the hot and humid south so stainless is a plus. I would prefer 4" with rear serrations, Novak sight cut and no billboard. The other thing I need is to be cut for extended grip safety. I get hammer bit by 1911s without it.

Tools. Is there a "1911 tool set"? What do I need? I have basic AR tools.I guess Brownells or Midway could take care of me.

Next would be a barrel. Good brand? Source? Does it need to be fitted? If so, can it be fitted by hand? I dont have access to machines. I do have access to a recliner and time.

I guess I need a "LPK" Is there a buy all kit? I would like to go this route to learn the parts. Then replace and upgrade once I figure out how they interface with eachother.

Also any questions I havent thought of? This is my first endeavor into messing around with 1911s.

Thanks in advance.
Mot

 

[Mags]

Midway USA will have most everything yoiu need, and for everything else go to Brownell's. I have seen 1911 spring kits which cover most of the frame springs. Triggers, beavertails, and mag & slide releases are best bought individually so you can pick the ones that suits your comfort and ergos. I hear Caspian makes some nice kits for just this thing.

 

[Jimfern]

I think you will have a great learning experience, but if you can get a 1911 that hasn't been "worked on", you should have a very reliable pistol. I have a $400 Norinco that I bought used and it's just as reliable as the Les Baer I own. The Norinco came with an ambi safety and Shooting Star magazine, but was otherwise unmolested. The Baer was, and remains, stock.

The only problems I have ever had were due to my first tries at reloading for an auto pistol, so I'm not trying to insinuate that the 1911 platform is anything but reliable. They should go bang every time. Good luck with your journey.

 

[JTQ]

Some helpful hints from Hilton Yam at 10-8 Performance

http://www.10-8performance.com/1911_Parts_Mods.html

http://www.10-8performance.com/1911_ToolKit.html

Be aware, the 1911 is not an "assemblers gun" like the AR or the Glock. Most parts won't just drop in, expect to do some filing and grinding.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I have built a 1911 from a parts kit.

By the time you buy the kit, the tools and so on, you will have spent far more than it would cost you to buy a top-notch M1911.

If you want to learn how the M1911 works, that's the way to go, but you will pay for learning.

 

[Zerodefect]

A Fusion parts kit is a good place to start. Fitted slide,frame,bushing,barrel. They should be cut to accept type1 grip safeties like the Ed Brown.

There is a Commander Kit.
http://www.fusionfirearms.com/

You'll need:
-punches, steel and brass
- Ed Brown Sear jig, comes with .020" shim, you may want a .019 and .018 for more advanced trigger settings.
-hard arkansas stone
-small files
-vice, hammer, soft-medium wood (for mounting sights)

I was going to build one, but instead chose to modify a DW Valor and redo my Kimber.

 

[schmeky]

What Vern Humphrey said,

If your goal is to build a tight, match grade accurate, well fitted, high quality pistol, you will spend more than a finished high end Les Baer, for example. I suggest you get the Jerry Kuhnhausen manuals, volume 1 & 2. Read them cover to cover. On the other hand, if you want to build just a basic "shooter" the cost drops significantly.

Go to the 1911 forum, a super great bunch of guys there, even some professional 1911 builders that participate and answer questions. I suggest you find out how deep the water is before you jump in.

My current high end 1911 build is over $1,100.00 just in parts, don't ask on the labor, probably have around 50 hours of my time and still not finished yet.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The first thing to buy is a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's manuals The Colt .45 Automatic -- a Shop Manual.

Read it carefully and note all the special tools needed -- for example, both the front sight and the plunger tube are staked in place. You can get a slide that is dovetailed for the front sight, but you still need a staking tool for the plunger tube.

Making a .45 is a big investment -- the only place to "save" is on parts. That's a mistake. If you're going to buy all the tools needed, and invest all that time, it's foolish to get less than the best parts.

 

[Quack]

the proper tools are gonna cost you some money.

everything will need to be fit, nothing is really drop-in.

here's some links:
http://www.blindhogg.com/gunsmithing.html
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12537/GunTechdetail/Building_A_1911___Part_I

 

[Zerodefect]

Most of that isn't nessasary with a Kit. The plunger tube is allready staked.
I'm not sure if Novak sights need staked, but it isn't hard to do.

I think a good budget including tools could be about $2000 for something really special.

 

[DasFriek]

I just did a very similar thing with my PT1911.
I had 2k rounds threw it, But wanted a higher end gun or one that felt like one.

Id say its definitely easier to start with a whole gun and start replacing parts as you go. But remember many parts have to be replaced as a groups as fitting new high end parts have very tight tolerances and if you fit them to the cheaper sloppy stock parts they will never work right with the other new parts you add along the way.
This particularity relates to the fire control parts. And they should be done first also and then everything else will be fitted around them.

Id also save the barrel/lug/bushing for last as that can be the hardest to get right. And the old barrel parts wont affect the new ones so you can test everything until your ready to attempt the barrel set.

My job i only kept the frame/slide and barrel and i kept the sights.
All the parts i bought have run between $400-$500 so far and that does not include a refinish on the exterior.
I may do that myself wich will run about $100
Will be around $200 to have it done by someone else.

I also have 2 things left to do and that is a Bobtail i want to add and a moderate carry melt. Both of which need done before the refinish.
Cost will be another $100.

Gun- $550
Parts already installed- $500
Refinish - $150 +-$50 depending on which way i have it done.
Bobtail- $100
$1300 will be the final cost of rebuilding the gun myself with no labor costs involved.

Here is the thread i did at Taurus Armed which is still documenting the project.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=41365.0

My parts list:

1.8 EXTRACTOR ---- Wilson HD ----
1.9 FIRING PIN STOP ---- EGW OVERSIZE FIRING PIN STOP ----
1.10 FIRING PIN ---- Ed Brown Firing Pin Stainless Steel ----
1.11 FIRING PIN SPRING ---- Wilson HD ----
3.2 RECOIL SPRING ---- Wilson 18.5lb ----
4.2 SLIDE STOP ---- Wilson Combat Extended Slide Stop ----
4.4 SLIDE STOP PLUNGER ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.5 PLUNGER SPRING ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.6 SAFETY LOCK PLUNGER ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.7 HAMMER PIN ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.8 SEAR PIN ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.9 EJECTOR PIN ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.10 MANUAL SAFETY LEVER - LEFT ---- Wilson Combat Tactical Thumb Safety ----
4.15 DISCONNECTER ---- Les Baer Custom Disconnecter 1911 ----
4.18 SEAR ----- Ed Brown Match Grade Sear 1911 ----
4.19 MAGAZINE CATCH ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.20 MAGAZINE CATCH SPRING ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.21 MAGAZINE CATCH LOCK ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
4.23 MAINSPRING HOUSING PIN ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
5 SEAR SPRING -- Cylinder & Slide Sear Spring 1911 ----
6.1 TRIGGER ---- EGW SOLID BLANK TRIGGER ----
7.2 HAMMER ----- Wilson Combat Value Line Speed Hammer ----
7.5 HAMMER STRUT ---- Wilson Combat Factory Plus Hammer Strut ----
7.7 HAMMER STRUT PIN ---- Wilson Combat Factory Plus Hammer Strut Pin ----
8.1 MAINSPRING CAP ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
8.2 MAINSPRING ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
8.3 MAINSPRING HOUSING RETAINER ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
8.4 MAINSPRING CAP PIN ---- Ed Brown Frame Rebuild Kit ----
8.5 MAINSPRING HOUSING N/A
9 GRIP SAFETY ---- Ed Brown Beaver-tail Grip Safety ----
10 Magazine ---- Wilson 47D ----

So now i have a $1300 Taurus PT1911 valued at $400 as a trade in, But i buried myself upside down like this on purpose as i bought the gun as my first 1911 and to teach me on how to work on them.
The gun shoots and feels like nothing ive even shot. And so tight i would have to buy a Wilson Combat to find a gun that handles like mine does now with such high quality parts all hand fitted right down to even all new pins threw-out the whole gun.

But if you have the money and a bit of 1911 knowledge id highly suggest starting with a Fusion frame and slide so the gun is worth what you put into it when its complete.
Id have to gut mine and put all the original parts in it to sell it and pray the parts would work in a more expensive frame and slide.

 

[Mot45acp]

I have no problem fitting pieces. I would prefer to do it by hand with files and paper instead of a grinder. I wonder if getting a Citadel or RIA is the way to go.

 

[gbw]

...I wonder if getting a Citadel or RIA is the way to go.

It is definitely the way to begin. Get a basic RIA and start working it up slowly. Make sure you understand barrel fitting, link-down / lockup / unlock timing, and safeties before you start. Schuemann gives a good explanation of the link-down timing for example, in his website, although his clearance reqirements are too large imo. You will need some specialty files, a sear jig, but some other specialized tools, a plunger tube staker, for example, you can make yourself.

I build my 1911's with high end pieces, Caspian frames and Colt slides, Kart or Schuemann barrels. They are attractive, smooth, reliable and accurate. They aren't cheap, minimum cost is around $1100. This is not an assembler's pistol nor the way to save money.

Messrs. Humphery, Schmecky, et al. gave you good advice.

Finally, unless you are a well known pistolsmith the gun will not be worth near what you put into it, and this is NOT counting your time. you do this for fun and satisfaction, not to save money.

 

[schmeky]

I think starting with a RIA or Citadel is an excellent idea. Keep the original parts unaltered and install the new/upgraded parts.

I can't emphasize enough the importance if the Kuhnhuasen manuals. As an aside, even the 1911 pros that make their living building these pistols are still to this day trying to figure out better ways to fit barrels to perfection.

BTW, with all due respect, if you use a any type of grinder on a 1911 . . . . . . .

 

[kentucky_smith]

Go to Sarcoinc.com and get a builder's kit, less frame, . Order frame with plunger tube and ejector already staked on. Go from there.

http://www.sarcoinc.com/cgm.html

 

[kentucky_smith]

Here you go.

http://e-sarcoinc.com/451911autobuildkitlessframe.aspx


You'll have a good idea of what needs to be done for build 2. Put all this together and you'll have a mil-spec 1911. Not tight by any means but will give you something to tinker with cheaply.

 

[DasFriek]

You may find this thread of some interest as it should pretty much see what issues others have ran into at the same spot your at and how they over came the issue.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=272326

Makes for a long and sometimes technical read and makes me realize im not ready to do one from scratch just yet. But i feel if you start with a complete donor gun it would go much smoother than starting with just a frame and slide.

In my current rebuild im running into issues on very small things at which point i cant make up my mind on my next move.
I want a Bobtail and that will be done in 2 weeks.
I can get away with just cold bluing the frame where i did the fitting.

But my issue is arising as to whether i want to do a full refinish. As id like a dehorn/carry melt done and my guns thin bluing is showing a bit of wear anyhow after 1 year of holster wear and constant dis-assembly, A gun like this deserves to look pretty for a little while anyhow.
But a more durable finish really is needed.

Kinda dumb to do a Bobtail and then leave the gun looking like the finish is at 75%. And you may run into this also as i have one spot which is my grip safety that the metal needs a mild amount of blending. That will be done when i do the Bobtail and hopefully push me over the edge saying i "NEED" the refinish now.

In the end i know i talk like id like to leave it unfinished and just enjoy it as a "sleeper" that's not pretty but handles like a custom. But in the end ill never do that as i just cant half AXX anything.

Back to your project, I know when i read the thread i linked well the first 10 or so pages so far you can definitely get by without half the tools he uses.
I found patience was my best tool but i kept loosing it constantly and that required disassemble again and going back threw my work to fine tune it.
I have yet to just "fit" a part and be done, I always need to go back a second and third time on occasions to do better fine tuning.

I don't know if i mentioned this in my last post, But a part that's over-sized in every aspect is better than a part that's just right with no fitting as by the time its fine tuned its undersized and loose.
So when reading reviews of parts on Brownells and Midway look or ones that say "dropped right in" and go to the next part that says "Took extensive fitting, But was well worth it".